<div dir="ltr"><div>Dear Holly </div><div>Dear Rosemary</div><div>Thank you again very much for the analysis that you have done in regard with the description or definination of " Sole Desugnator" taking into account views expressed by Bruce, Grec and Jordan.</div><div>Now we need a formal / official definition or descrition of " Sole Designator" and its exacrt Role Responsibility, and Ruthority, withourt USING ETC WHICH IS NOT A LEGAL TERM </div><div>That terms shall be included in the Glossay and /or Bylaws .This is fundamental issue and must be clearly mentioned as an explicit term </div><div>Regards</div><div>Kavouss </div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2016-01-28 1:26 GMT+01:00 Nigel Roberts <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:nigel@channelisles.net" target="_blank">nigel@channelisles.net</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Like us all, it has feet of clay.<span><br>
<br>
On 27/01/16 20:56, Greg Shatan wrote:<br>
</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><span>
Jordan,<br>
<br>
Succinct and accurate. Thank you.<br>
<br>
I will just emphasize and reiterate one part of your message: The<br>
Empowered Community "has all the powers we will give it through the<br>
ICANN bylaws" including the power to appoint and remove directors.<br>
Since this last power is defined by California statute as the<br>
"designator" right, we have been calling the "Empowered Community" the<br>
"Sole Designator," and vice versa.<br>
<br>
If one wants to see the "powers" of the Empowered Community/Sole<br>
Designator Entity (ECSDE?) one just needs to look at the community<br>
powers in our proposal. Where the community comes together (more or<br>
less) as one, that's the ECSDE.<br>
<br>
Of course, we should come up with a better name for this and use only<br>
one name rather than two, which has sowed confusion. One suggestion:<br>
Good Old Legal Empowerment Mechanism (GOLEM).<br>
<br>
I feel this is all clear.<br>
<br>
Greg<br>
<br>
On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 3:31 PM, Jordan Carter <<a href="mailto:jordan@internetnz.net.nz" target="_blank">jordan@internetnz.net.nz</a><br></span><span>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:jordan@internetnz.net.nz" target="_blank">jordan@internetnz.net.nz</a>>> wrote:<br>
<br>
Dear all, dear Kavouss<br>
<br>
I don't feel any questions on my part are missing.<br>
<br>
I am clear and I think from this whole thread, it is clear to<br>
everyone that there is one entity - the Empowered Community. It is<br>
established as an unincorporated association, and it has all the<br>
powers we will give it through the ICANN bylaws. One of those powers<br>
is appointment and removal of directors. It can back those powers up<br>
in Court if need be because it is recognised as a Designator under<br>
the law of California.<br>
<br>
So: the powers are set out in the bylaws as per our report. The<br>
single entity is the Empowered Community. It is the Sole Designator.<br>
<br>
I'm happy and don't need any legal input, and my reading is that we<br>
are all on the same page.<br>
<br>
<br>
bests<br>
Jordan<br>
<br>
<br>
On 28 January 2016 at 03:44, Kavouss Arasteh<br></span><span>
<<a href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com" target="_blank">kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com" target="_blank">kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
<br>
Dear Holly<br>
No ,you have not said any thingabout the claim of Some people<br>
providing all and every power for the " Empowred Community"/"<br>
Sole Designator " versus what Bruce said and versus what Jordan<br>
said ( with which I fuklly agreed ) .<br>
You said the following<br>
Quote<br></span>
"/does not adequately describe the other important roles for the<span><br>
new entity, which extend well beyond the rights given to<br></span>
designators by California corporate law/"<span><br>
Unquote<br>
The wexpression / part of what you have said " which extend<br>
well beyond the rights given to designators by California<br>
corporate law"<br>
This portion is totally vague and does not any thing as requested<br>
Pls kindly and specifically , if you wish and if you respect me<br>
what is the role, responsibilities and authorities of the "<br></span>
*Empowred Community"/" Sole Designator " in regard *with what<span><br>
contained in the Article of incorporation, and proposed Bylaws.<br>
As you have noted the views of ICANN is ,for instance, right of<br>
ispection is reserved for the COMMUNITY AND NOT the Sole<br>
designtor . See read ICANN Comments ( Bruce as well ), Grec's<br>
Comments and Jordan Comments<br>
Regards<br>
Kavouss<br>
<br>
2016-01-27 15:20 GMT+01:00 Seun Ojedeji <<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a><br></span>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>>>:<span><br>
<br>
Hello Kavous,<br>
<br>
I don't understand what other study is required in this. The<br>
lawyers have provided the clarification required(indicating<br>
theroles and the relevant vehicles to exercise them) and if<br>
the 3 you mentioned have a different opinion then they would<br>
have indicated it (I note that Greg already acknowledged the<br>
response from legal).<br>
<br>
I don't think there is need(neither is it economical) to<br>
further utilise legal hours on this unless you specifically<br>
indicate what area is not clear to you as a person (which is<br>
yet to be explained).<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
<br>
On 27 Jan 2016 14:58, "Kavouss Arasteh"<br>
<<a href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com" target="_blank">kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com</a><br></span><span>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com" target="_blank">kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
<br>
Dear Holly<br>
Dear Rosemary<br>
Thank you very much for definition<br>
However, the problem that was raised was not the<br>
definition but the scope of responsibility and mandate<br>
There were three options<br>
View one; From Bruce<br>
View Two FromGrec<br>
View three;From Jordan<br>
Please kindly carefully study these three and comment in<br>
favour of one or other or a combination of those three.<br>
The three designator came first from you in APRIL 2015<br>
tHE eMPOWERED cOMMUNITY CASE FROM THE ccwg discussion.<br>
I agree that the latter is more appropriate but the<br>
problem raised was different as described above.<br>
Either you wish to reply or not but please kindly reply<br>
to the question raised<br>
Regards<br>
Kavouss<br>
<br>
2016-01-27 6:53 GMT+01:00 Seun Ojedeji<br></span>
<<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>>>:<span><br>
<br>
Thanks a lot Rosemary that answers my question<br>
perfectly.<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
<br>
On 27 Jan 2016 6:47 a.m., "Rosemary E. Fei"<br></span>
<<a href="mailto:rfei@adlercolvin.com" target="_blank">rfei@adlercolvin.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:rfei@adlercolvin.com" target="_blank">rfei@adlercolvin.com</a>>><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
Dear Sean and all:____<br>
<br>
__ __<span><br>
<br>
You are correct. The power to designate (and<br>
correspondingly to remove) directors is one of<br>
the powers that will be given to the Empowered<br>
Community in the Bylaws. You could also say that<br>
acting as ICANN’s “sole designator” is one of<br>
the Empowered Community’s roles in the proposed<br>
accountability structure, along with other roles<br>
and powers that will also be given to the<br></span>
Empowered Community in the Bylaws. ____<br>
<br>
__ __<span><br>
<br>
The Empowered Community could be given the other<br>
powers (except the removal right) without giving<br>
it the power to designate directors – those<br>
other powers can legally be given to any third<br>
party, not just one that holds designator<br></span>
powers.____<br>
<br>
__ __<br>
<br>
I hope that answers your question.____<br>
<br>
__ __<br>
<br>
Rosemary____<br>
<br>
__ __<br>
<br>
*From:*Seun Ojedeji<br>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>>]<br>
*Sent:* Tuesday, January 26, 2016 9:41 PM<br>
*To:* Holly Gregory<br>
*Cc:* Thomas Rickert; ACCT-Staff; ICANN-Adler;<br>
Sidley ICANN CCWG;<br>
<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a>>;<span><br>
León Felipe Sánchez Ambía; Mathieu Weill<br></span>
*Subject:* Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Nomenclature re<span><br>
"Empowered Community": ICANN Board comments -<br></span>
Recommendation 3 - Fundamental Bylaws____<br>
<br>
__ __<span><br>
<br>
Thank you Holly for the clarification. This has<br></span>
been my understanding as well.____<span><br>
<br>
One other thing that I would appreciate if<br>
clarified is to know whether the "empowered<br>
community" is able to carry out the other roles<br>
(like approval of bylaws et all) because it is<br>
the designator or just because it is the<br>
unincorporated entity setup as the third party<br></span>
to perform those roles in the bylaw.____<span><br>
<br>
In other words the unincorporated entity doubles<br>
as both the designator (with the power as<br>
described under California law) and the<br>
"enhanced community" (with the other powers as<br></span>
described in the bylaw).____<br>
<br>
Regards____<span><br>
<br>
On 26 Jan 2016 9:38 p.m., "Gregory, Holly"<br>
<<a href="mailto:holly.gregory@sidley.com" target="_blank">holly.gregory@sidley.com</a><br></span>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:holly.gregory@sidley.com" target="_blank">holly.gregory@sidley.com</a>>> wrote:____<span><br>
<br>
Dear CCWG-ACCT Co-Chairs, Members, Participants<br></span>
and Staff, ____<br>
<br>
____<span><br>
<br>
We have been monitoring the recent discussion on<br>
the CCWG-ACCT listserv about the use of the<br>
terms “community”, “Empowered Community”, and<br>
“Sole Designator” in the draft Proposal, and we<br></span>
wish to share our understanding of these terms.____<br>
<br>
____<span><br>
<br>
We agree that the word “community” as used in<br>
the draft Proposal encompasses not only ICANN’s<br>
Board and all of its SOs and ACs and their<br>
individual members, but also those who<br>
participate in ICANN meetings and processes, as<br>
explained by Bruce Tonkin in his January 24<br></span>
email.____<br>
<br>
____<span><br>
<br>
“Empowered Community” is the name to be given to<br>
an unincorporated association to be created in<br>
ICANN’s Bylaws. This new entity has also been<br>
described as the “Sole Designator,” but that<br>
term -- which arose from the new entity’s<br>
function as ICANN’s sole designator -- does not<br>
adequately describe the other important roles<br>
for the new entity, which extend well beyond the<br>
rights given to designators by California<br>
corporate law. Therefore, the “Empowered<br>
Community” is a more appropriate reference, and<br>
it has been used interchangeably with “Sole<br></span>
Designator” to date. ____<br>
<br>
____<span><br>
<br>
As a global final edit, we recommend using<br>
“Empowered Community” consistently to refer to<br>
the new legal entity, after the first discussion<br></span>
of the sole designator concept. ____<br>
<br>
____<br>
<br>
Kind regards, ____<br>
<br>
Hlly and Rosemary____<br>
<br>
____<br>
<br>
____<br>
<br>
*HOLLY**GREGORY*<br>
Partner<br>
<br>
*Sidley Austin LLP**<br>
*<a href="tel:%2B1%20212%20839%205853" target="_blank" value="+12128395853">+1 212 839 5853</a> <tel:%2B1%20212%20839%205853><br>
<a href="mailto:holly.gregory@sidley.com" target="_blank">holly.gregory@sidley.com</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:holly.gregory@sidley.com" target="_blank">holly.gregory@sidley.com</a>>____<br>
<br>
____<br>
<br>
*From:*<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>><br>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>>]<br>
*On Behalf Of *Greg Shatan<br>
*Sent:* Monday, January 25, 2016 11:42 PM<br>
*To:* Jordan Carter<br>
*Cc:* <a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a>><br>
*Subject:* Re: [CCWG-ACCT] ICANN Board comments<br>
- Recommendation 3 - Fundamental Bylaws____<br>
<br>
____<br>
<br>
Recommendation 1 states:____<br>
<br>
____<span><br>
<br>
. The entity created using the Sole Designator<br>
model will be referred to as the “Empowered<br></span>
Community.”____<br>
<br>
(Summary, Page 1, bullet point 3).____<br>
<br>
____<span><br>
<br>
In other words the Sole Designator is the<br>
Empowered Community, and vice versa. You are<br></span>
introducing a dichotomy where none exists.____<br>
<br>
____<br>
<br>
Greg____<br>
<br>
____<span><br>
<br>
On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 5:39 PM, Jordan Carter<br>
<<a href="mailto:jordan@internetnz.net.nz" target="_blank">jordan@internetnz.net.nz</a><br></span>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:jordan@internetnz.net.nz" target="_blank">jordan@internetnz.net.nz</a>>> wrote:____<span><br>
<br>
This isn't quite right - as far as I am aware<br>
the entity that is the Sole Designator will have<br>
the right to appoint and remove directors, and<br>
be the 'third party' that can approve changes to<br>
Icann fundamental bylaws or block changes to<br></span>
Icann standard bylaws.____<br>
<br>
____<span><br>
<br>
I'm not sure this is a revelation of any sort,<br>
or causes any confusion at all. These powers<br>
along with all the others will be set out in the<br>
bylaws, as has been the case all along. The only<br>
distinguishing feature is that the legislation<br>
in California gives designators the director<br>
rights, and gives the right of the articles /<br></span>
bylaws to include third party approvals.____<br>
<br>
____<span><br>
<br>
Even if people are confused about this, there is<br></span>
no problem in substance to resolve.____<br>
<br>
____<br>
<br>
____<br>
<br>
Cheers____<br>
<br>
Jordan ____<span><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Monday, 25 January 2016, Seun Ojedeji<br>
<<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a><br></span>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:____<br>
<br>
Hi Greg,____<span><br>
<br>
I don't think we are in disagreement in the<br>
substance of all these. It's just the naming we<br>
are in disagreement upon and I am still of the<br>
opinion that a designator only has the statutory<br></span>
power to remove/add board members. ____<span><br>
<br>
All other powers/process we have managed to put<br>
in the bylaw may need to be called/named<br>
something else as they are not made possible<br>
because of the designator but rather because of<br>
the fact that they are now written in the bylaw<br>
and the board normally would want to respect<br></span>
such a document.____<span><br>
<br>
In anycase, unless there is any other change you<br>
think has been proposed other than giving<br>
inspection rights to the community (which you<br>
and I are in agreement) that affects the current<br>
proposal, I don't see any reason to still<br></span>
consider this open as such.____<br>
<br>
Regards____<span><br>
<br>
On 24 Jan 2016 18:02, "Greg Shatan"<br>
<<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><br></span>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:____<br>
<br>
Seun,____<br>
<br>
____<span><br>
<br>
You misunderstand me. The Designator does more<br>
than "enforce" powers. Under our proposal, the<br>
designator is also the vehicle for<br></span>
_exercising_ a number of the powers (e.g.,<span><br>
approving/rejecting bylaws). The exercise of<br>
the new powers by the designator will be a much<br>
more common occurrence than the enforcement of<br>
those powers by removing directors. I<br>
anticipate the latter will rarely (if ever)<br>
occur, though the fact it can occur is part of<br>
our accountability framework. There are other<br>
reasons for the Board to comply with the<br>
community's exercise of its powers, aside from<br>
sheer terror at being removed. For one thing,<br>
these powers are enshrined in the bylaws, and<br>
the Board (like any Board) will not take the<br></span>
prospect of violating our Bylaws lightly.____<br>
<br>
____<span><br>
<br>
We have had a tendency to overemphasize the<br>
enforcement end of things, and I think this is<br>
one more action in that vein. Let's try to<br>
avoid that. Just like our proposal is about far<br>
more than "enforcement," so is the Single<br></span>
Designator.____<br>
<br>
____<span><br>
<br>
So, no, your statement did not "close this<br>
particular item." Rather, it demonstrates<br></span>
exactly why this item is not really closed.____<br>
<br>
____<br>
<br>
Greg____<br>
<br>
____<span><br>
<br>
On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 10:48 AM, Seun Ojedeji<br>
<<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a><br></span>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:____<span><br>
<br>
On 24 Jan 2016 16:15, "Greg Shatan"<br>
<<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><br></span><span>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> I agree with the result the Board came to (at<br>
least in part), but not the reasoning. Each SO<br>
or AC should have the right to inspect.<br>
However, the role of the Designator is not<br>
merely to "add or remove Board members." The<br>
Designator plays a critical role in the exercise<br>
of several of the powers, in addition to its<br>
role in enforcing those powers via director<br>
removal.<br>
><br>
SO: I guess Bruce was rightly mentioning the<br>
powers of the designator. I believe we we will<br>
only be getting those powers enforced as a<br>
result of the "add/remove" power of the<br></span>
designator. ____<span><br>
<br>
So in summary we don't get enforcement of the<br>
various powers because it's a role of the<br>
designator but on the basis that the designator<br>
may use its only statutory power, which is to<br></span>
add/remove board members.____<span><br>
<br>
I generally agree with the result and would have<br>
even preferred that a threshold be required for<br>
inspection. However, on the basis that each<br>
SO/AC may need access to certain information to<br>
make informed/independent decisions, it makes<br></span>
sense to allow such right to each SO/AC.____<br>
<br>
Hopefully this close this particular item.____<br>
<br>
Regards____<div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
on Recommendation 1.<br>
>><br>
>> Just to provide a little more context in<br>
response to questions on the list.<br>
>><br>
>> The role of the designator is to add or<br>
remove Board directors. This role is<br>
enforceable under California law.<br>
>><br>
>> The inspection right is a right for the ACs<br>
and SOs. An AC or SO can exercise this right<br>
independently of the legal entity that will be<br>
the sole designator. If ICANN doesn't<br>
respond to an appropriate request from an SO or<br>
AC, it would be in breach of its bylaws. The<br>
community can then use the IRP to get a binding<br>
decision. In the unlikely event that the<br>
Board does not comply with the outcome of the<br>
IRP decision, then the designator has the power<br>
to remove Board members.<br>
>><br>
>> In the bylaws we want to make sure that we<br>
don't confuse the role of the designator (add or<br>
remove Board members) with the various roles of<br>
the SO and ACs in the bylaws. The bylaws are<br>
primarily enforced by the IRP, and then the<br>
designator (via removal of Board directors) if<br>
the IRP is not complied with, and then the<br>
courts if the decision of the designator is not<br>
complied with. This is a clear escalation path<br>
that applies to all bylaws.<br>
>><br>
>> Regards,<br>
>> Bruce Tonkin<br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org" target="_blank">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a><br></div></div>
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