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<div>On voting: Beginning in Dublin, CCWG moved away from making decisions my supermajority voting. </div>
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<div>Instead, the empowered community will determine consensus by meeting thresholds of support in the absence of multiple objections. </div>
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<div>This is markedly different than determining outcomes by tallying votes to see who got the most. </div>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span><<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>> on behalf of Robin Gross <<a href="mailto:robin@ipjustice.org">robin@ipjustice.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Friday, February 12, 2016 at 1:46 PM<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>Andrew Sullivan <<a href="mailto:ajs@anvilwalrusden.com">ajs@anvilwalrusden.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>"<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Fwd: FW: CCWG - recs 1,2 and 11<br>
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<div class="">When I look up the definition of “voting” in order to understand if SO-ACs are doing it through exercise of community power, it seems pretty clear we will be “voting”. SO-ACs will be expressing formal opinions in response to a proposed decision.
Putting the word “consensus” in there just doesn’t negate the core meaning of the words we are using. And we aren't going to trick the NTIA and Congress into believing the ordinary dictionary definition of words should not apply to their requirements. The
sooner we put together a proposal that *will* be accepted by the powers-that-be, the sooner we can get this process over with.</div>
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<div class="">Robin</div>
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<div class=""><a href="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vote" class="">Merriam Webster</a> defines the term “voting” to mean “:</div>
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<ol class="definition-list" style="margin: 0px 0px 1.25em; padding: 0px; float: left; list-style-type: none; width: auto;">
<li style="margin: 0px 0px 1.1875em; padding: 0px; counter-increment: nums 1; letter-spacing: 0.094em; list-style-position: outside; position: relative; list-style-type: none;" class="">
<div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px 0px 0px 2.1875em; color: rgb(59, 62, 65); font-family: 'Open Sans', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 1em; clear: both; position: relative; letter-spacing: 0.04em !important; line-height: 1.5em !important;" class="">
<span class="sense" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: bold; left: 0px; position: absolute; top: 0px;">1</span><span style="margin: 0px 0px 0.125em; padding: 0px; display: block;" class=""><span class="sub sense alp" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: bold; left: 0px; position: static; top: 0px;">a</span>
<span class="intro-colon" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px !important; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding: 0px; font-weight: bold;">
:</span> a usually formal expression of opinion or will in response to a proposed decision; <em style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;" class="">especially</em>
<span class="intro-colon" style="margin: 0px 5px 0px 0px; padding: 0px; font-weight: bold;">
:</span> one given as an indication of approval or disapproval of a proposal, motion, or candidate for office</span><span style="margin: 0px 0px 0.125em; padding: 0px; display: block;" class=""><span class="sub sense alp" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: bold; left: 0px; position: static; top: 0px;">b</span>
<span class="intro-colon" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px !important; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding: 0px; font-weight: bold;">
:</span> the total number of such expressions of opinion made known at a single time (as at an election)</span><span style="margin: 0px 0px 0.125em; padding: 0px; display: block;" class=""><span class="sub sense alp" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: bold; left: 0px; position: static; top: 0px;">c</span>
<span class="intro-colon" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px !important; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding: 0px; font-weight: bold;">
:</span> an expression of opinion or preference that resembles a vote</span><span style="margin: 0px 0px 0.125em; padding: 0px; display: block;" class=""><span class="sub sense alp" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: bold; left: 0px; position: static; top: 0px;">d</span>
<span class="intro-colon" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px !important; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding: 0px; font-weight: bold;">
:</span> <a href="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ballot" class="sx-link sc" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; color: rgb(174, 0, 21); outline: 0px; text-decoration: none; letter-spacing: 0.04em; font-variant: small-caps !important;">ballot</a> 1</span></div>
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<span class="sense" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: bold; left: 0px; position: absolute; top: 0px;">2</span><span style="margin: 0px 0px 0.125em; padding: 0px; display: block;" class=""><span class="intro-colon" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 4px !important; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding: 0px; font-weight: bold;">:</span>
the collective opinion or verdict of a body of persons expressed by voting</span></div>
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<div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px 0px 0px 2.1875em; color: rgb(59, 62, 65); font-family: 'Open Sans', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 1em; clear: both; position: relative; letter-spacing: 0.04em !important; line-height: 1.5em !important;" class="">
<span class="sense" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: bold; left: 0px; position: absolute; top: 0px;">3</span><span style="margin: 0px 0px 0.125em; padding: 0px; display: block;" class=""><span class="intro-colon" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 4px !important; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding: 0px; font-weight: bold;">:</span>
the right to cast a vote; <em style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;" class="">specifically</em>
<span class="intro-colon" style="margin: 0px 5px 0px 0px; padding: 0px; font-weight: bold;">
:</span> the right of suffrage <span class="intro-colon" style="margin: 0px 5px 0px 0px; padding: 0px; font-weight: bold;">:</span> <a href="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/franchise" class="sx-link sc" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; color: rgb(174, 0, 21); outline: 0px; text-decoration: none; letter-spacing: 0.04em; font-variant: small-caps !important;">franchise</a></span></div>
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<span class="sense" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: bold; left: 0px; position: absolute; top: 0px;">4</span><span style="margin: 0px 0px 0.125em; padding: 0px; display: block;" class=""><span class="sub sense alp" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: bold; left: 0px; position: static; top: 0px;">a</span>
<span class="intro-colon" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px !important; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding: 0px; font-weight: bold;">
:</span> the act or process of voting <span class="vi" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"><brought the question to a <em style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;" class="">vote</em>></span></span><span style="margin: 0px 0px 0.125em; padding: 0px; display: block;" class=""><span class="sub sense alp" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: bold; left: 0px; position: static; top: 0px;">b</span>
<span class="intro-colon" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px !important; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding: 0px; font-weight: bold;">
:</span> a method of voting</span></div>
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<span class="sense" style="color: rgb(59, 62, 65); margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: bold; left: 0px; position: absolute; top: 0px;">5</span><span style="color: rgb(59, 62, 65); margin: 0px 0px 0.125em; padding: 0px; display: block;" class=""><span class="intro-colon" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 4px !important; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding: 0px; font-weight: bold;">:</span>
a formal expression of a wish, will, or choice <a href="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/voted" class="formulaic" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; color: rgb(174, 0, 21); outline: 0px; text-decoration: none; letter-spacing: 0.04em;">voted</a> by
a meeting</span><span style="color: rgb(59, 62, 65); margin: 0px 0px 0.125em; padding: 0px; display: block;" class=""><br class="">
</span><span style="color: rgb(59, 62, 65); margin: 0px 0px 0.125em; padding: 0px; display: block; font-size: 14px;" class=""><a href="http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/vote" class=""><b class="">Oxford defines “voting” as:</b></a></span><span style="margin: 0px 0px 0.125em; padding: 0px; display: block;" class="">
<div class="msDict sense" style="box-sizing: border-box; border: none; margin: 0px 0px 30px; padding: 0px 0px 0px 20px; overflow: hidden; position: relative; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; letter-spacing: normal;">
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</span></div>
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<span class="definition" style="box-sizing: border-box; border: none; margin: 0px 0px 5px; padding: 0px;"><font color="#e32400" class="">1.0</font> A formal <a class="w translation" href="http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/indication#indication__2" title="Meaning of indication" style="color: rgb(21, 130, 194); box-sizing: border-box; border: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none; transition: color 0.4s ease, background-color 0.4s ease; -webkit-transition: color 0.4s ease, background-color 0.4s ease;">indication</a> of
a <a class="w translation" href="http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/choice#choice__2" title="Meaning of choice" style="color: rgb(21, 130, 194); box-sizing: border-box; border: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none; transition: color 0.4s ease, background-color 0.4s ease; -webkit-transition: color 0.4s ease, background-color 0.4s ease;">choice</a> between
two or more candidates or courses of action, expressed typically through a <a class="w translation" href="http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/ballot#ballot__7" title="Meaning of ballot" style="color: rgb(21, 130, 194); box-sizing: border-box; border: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none; transition: color 0.4s ease, background-color 0.4s ease; -webkit-transition: color 0.4s ease, background-color 0.4s ease;">ballot</a> or
a <a class="w translation" href="http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/show#show__66" title="Meaning of show of hands" style="color: rgb(21, 130, 194); box-sizing: border-box; border: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none; transition: color 0.4s ease, background-color 0.4s ease; -webkit-transition: color 0.4s ease, background-color 0.4s ease;">show
of hands</a> or by voice<span class="punctuation" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); box-sizing: border-box; border: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">.</span></span></div>
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<div class="msDict subsense" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); box-sizing: border-box; border: none; margin: 10px 0px 30px; padding: 0px 0px 0px 30px; overflow: hidden; position: relative; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; letter-spacing: normal;">
<div class="senseInnerWrapper" style="box-sizing: border-box; border: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">
<a id="vote__5" style="box-sizing: border-box; border: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; color: rgb(0, 189, 242); cursor: pointer; transition: color 0.4s ease, background-color 0.4s ease; -webkit-transition: color 0.4s ease, background-color 0.4s ease;" class=""></a><span class="iteration" style="box-sizing: border-box; border: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; color: rgb(247, 142, 30); font-size: 12px; left: 0px; position: absolute; vertical-align: top;">1.1</span><span class="definition" style="box-sizing: border-box; border: none; margin: 0px 0px 5px; padding: 0px;">An
act of expressing a formal <a class="w translation" href="http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/indication#indication__2" title="Meaning of indication" style="box-sizing: border-box; border: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; color: rgb(21, 130, 194); cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none; -webkit-transition: color 0.4s ease, background-color 0.4s ease; transition: color 0.4s ease, background-color 0.4s ease;">indication</a> <a class="w translation" href="http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/choice#choice__18" title="Meaning of of choice" style="box-sizing: border-box; border: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; color: rgb(21, 130, 194); cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none; -webkit-transition: color 0.4s ease, background-color 0.4s ease; transition: color 0.4s ease, background-color 0.4s ease;">of
choice</a>:</span><span class="exampleGroup exGrBreak" style="box-sizing: border-box; border: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: Cambria, Georgia, 'Times New Roman', serif; display: block; font-size: 17px;"><em class="example" style="box-sizing: border-box; border: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">they
are ready to <strong style="box-sizing: border-box; border: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;" class="">put it to a vote</strong></em></span>
<div class="moreInformation" style="box-sizing: border-box; border: none; margin: 10px 0px 0px; padding: 0px;">
<a class="moreInformationExemples" style="box-sizing: border-box; border-style: solid none; border-top-width: 1px; border-bottom-width: 1px; border-top-color: rgb(221, 221, 221); border-bottom-color: rgb(221, 221, 221); margin: 0px; padding: 2px 10px; color: rgb(129, 128, 128); cursor: pointer; transition: color 0.4s ease, background-color 0.4s ease; -webkit-transition: color 0.4s ease, background-color 0.4s ease; background-image: url(data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAAwAAAAGCAYAAAD37n+BAAAAfklEQVQY04XNMQ5BQQCE4W+fSusELrBxA1fw5JWbKNQaDkKjVkj2II4gewEthVZFFLZQvDDd/DOZCXKZIkjx5Jc+PQ2uaOXS/ijPMMctVDDCBhccpPiqvMESY2yleA9fK0OsMMCu0jWe2EvxAaHnfoFJdWcpHv1VLp1cur7oDW2tIVadzWmtAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC); display: block; font-size: 13px; text-transform: uppercase; background-position: 98% 50%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat;"><br class="">
</a></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="msDict subsense" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); box-sizing: border-box; border: none; margin: 10px 0px 30px; padding: 0px 0px 0px 30px; overflow: hidden; position: relative; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; letter-spacing: normal;">
<div class="senseInnerWrapper" style="box-sizing: border-box; border: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">
<a id="vote__6" style="box-sizing: border-box; border: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; color: rgb(0, 189, 242); cursor: pointer; transition: color 0.4s ease, background-color 0.4s ease; -webkit-transition: color 0.4s ease, background-color 0.4s ease;" class=""></a><span class="iteration" style="box-sizing: border-box; border: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; color: rgb(247, 142, 30); font-size: 12px; left: 0px; position: absolute; vertical-align: top;">1.2</span>(<strong class="wordForm" style="box-sizing: border-box; border: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">the
vote</strong>)<span class="definition" style="box-sizing: border-box; border: none; margin: 0px 0px 5px; padding: 0px;"> The <a class="w translation" href="http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/choice#choice__2" title="Meaning of choice" style="box-sizing: border-box; border: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; color: rgb(21, 130, 194); cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none; -webkit-transition: color 0.4s ease, background-color 0.4s ease; transition: color 0.4s ease, background-color 0.4s ease;">choice</a> expressed
collectively by a body of <a class="w translation" href="http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/elector#elector__2" title="Meaning of electors" style="box-sizing: border-box; border: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; color: rgb(21, 130, 194); cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none; -webkit-transition: color 0.4s ease, background-color 0.4s ease; transition: color 0.4s ease, background-color 0.4s ease;">electors</a> or
by a specified group:</span><span class="exampleGroup exGrBreak" style="box-sizing: border-box; border: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-family: Cambria, Georgia, 'Times New Roman', serif; display: block; font-size: 17px;"><em class="example" style="box-sizing: border-box; border: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">the
Republican vote in <a class="w translation" href="http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/Florida#Florida__2" title="Meaning of Florida" style="box-sizing: border-box; border: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; color: rgb(21, 130, 194); cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none; -webkit-transition: color 0.4s ease, background-color 0.4s ease; transition: color 0.4s ease, background-color 0.4s ease;">Florida</a></em></span></div>
</div>
<div class="msDict subsense" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); box-sizing: border-box; border: none; margin: 10px 0px 30px; padding: 0px 0px 0px 30px; overflow: hidden; position: relative; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; letter-spacing: normal;">
<div class="senseInnerWrapper" style="box-sizing: border-box; border: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">
<a id="vote__8" style="box-sizing: border-box; border: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; color: rgb(0, 189, 242); cursor: pointer; transition: color 0.4s ease, background-color 0.4s ease; -webkit-transition: color 0.4s ease, background-color 0.4s ease;" class=""></a><span class="iteration" style="box-sizing: border-box; border: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; color: rgb(247, 142, 30); font-size: 12px; left: 0px; position: absolute; vertical-align: top;">1.3</span>(<strong class="wordForm" style="box-sizing: border-box; border: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">the
vote</strong>)<span class="definition" style="box-sizing: border-box; border: none; margin: 0px 0px 5px; padding: 0px;"> The right to indicate a <a class="w translation" href="http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/choice#choice__2" title="Meaning of choice" style="box-sizing: border-box; border: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; color: rgb(21, 130, 194); cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none; -webkit-transition: color 0.4s ease, background-color 0.4s ease; transition: color 0.4s ease, background-color 0.4s ease;">choice</a> in
an election<span class="punctuation" style="box-sizing: border-box; border: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">.</span></span></div>
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<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Feb 12, 2016, at 6:35 AM, Andrew Sullivan <<a href="mailto:ajs@anvilwalrusden.com" class="">ajs@anvilwalrusden.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class="">Hi,<br class="">
<br class="">
On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 01:18:11PM +0000, Schaefer, Brett wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class=""><br class="">
In fact, the decisional model does expressly contemplate voting, i.e. tallying support or opposition among the decisional participants with specified thresholds, to climb the escalation ladder and exercise community powers.<br class="">
<br class="">
</blockquote>
<br class="">
I am really leery of having a discussion in which we parse the<br class="">
meanings of "consensus" and "voting", but I think there is at least an<br class="">
open argument that the escalation ladder and so on amounts to a way to<br class="">
determine community consensus. Moreover, the specification of<br class="">
thesholds are, after all, of the constituent SOs and ACs rather than<br class="">
of individual voters. Having already long ago decided that decision<br class="">
making in ICANN would be along constituency-defined lines (rather than<br class="">
the unitary "community" that we see in, say, the IETF), it seems<br class="">
self-evident that one needs a way to ensure that one interest group<br class="">
can't block everyone else. So regardless of whether one thinks that<br class="">
this is some form of voting, it's still a mechanism to find consensus.<br class="">
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">Moreover, the GAC is now a participant in the Empowered Community (albeit with the carve out) and the advisory role has been altered, not maintained, by defining GAC consensus and elevating the Board threshold to reject GAC
consensus advice to 60 percent. These are significant changes.<br class="">
<br class="">
</blockquote>
<br class="">
But there is a difference between "letting governments participate"<br class="">
and "letting governments decide". The proposal does the former -- I<br class="">
think correctly, because they too are part of the global community.<br class="">
It does not do the latter -- again, correctly, and in line with the<br class="">
NTIA criteria.<br class="">
<br class="">
Best regards,<br class="">
<br class="">
A<br class="">
<br class="">
-- <br class="">
Andrew Sullivan<br class="">
<a href="mailto:ajs@anvilwalrusden.com" class="">ajs@anvilwalrusden.com</a><br class="">
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<br class="">
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</blockquote>
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