<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Dear All,</div><div>Thanks to all of you.</div><div>I am not in favour to define nor interpret " Applicable Law"</div><div>We would be opening a very complex discussion and almost inconclusive results</div><div>Kavouss </div><div><br><br>Sent from my iPhone</div><div><br>On 3 Mar 2016, at 20:12, Martin Boyle <<a href="mailto:Martin.Boyle@nominet.uk">Martin.Boyle@nominet.uk</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<div>Nigel, you seem to be advocating US interpretation of human rights, which in turn would imply a degree of extraterritoriality.</div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature"><br>
</div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature">That should not be the case for ccTLDs as Eberhard points out, but it might be a big issue for geo-TLDs, too.</div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature"><br>
</div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature">I think that "applicable law" is the best formulation for where we are and WS2 can have the joy of interpreting what are the implications of that. Let's leave such a difficult discussion to then.</div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature"><br>
</div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature">Martin </div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature"><br>
</div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature"><br>
<br>
<br>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Martin Boyle<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Senior Policy Advisor<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Sent from my iPhone</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><img width="165" height="23" id="_x0030_6171EF1-7BF4-4B97-951F-DE331471A8A8" src="cid:image001.jpg@01D105C8.15DEB510" alt="cid:image001.jpg@01D0FCF7.DEE0F1F0"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;"><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><a href="http://nominet.uk/"><b>nominet.uk</b></a><b> </b>DD: <a href="tel:+44%20(0)1865%20332251" x-apple-data-detectors="true" x-apple-data-detectors-type="telephone" x-apple-data-detectors-result="2">+44
(0)1865 332251</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Minerva House, Edmund Halley Road, Oxford, OX4 4DQ, United Kingdom</span></p>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
On 2 Mar 2016, at 13:58, Dr Eberhard W Lisse <<a href="mailto:el@lisse.na">el@lisse.na</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><span>And,</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>it does so for gTLDs only.</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>el</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>On 2016-03-02 15:42 , Nigel Roberts wrote:</span><br>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>As you rightly say, I am foreshadowing WS2.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>But I am also renewing my strong objection to the "applicable law"</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>formulation, for the following reason.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>It's quite valid to comment, in response, that ICANN *already* regulates</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>the takedown of domain names in the protection of third-party rights -</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>the protection of intellectual property.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>That is all well and good, and is a worthy step in the protection of</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>that person/organisations rights under (for example) Art. 1, Prot.1 of</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>the ECHR -- provided it is balanced against the rights to free</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>expression and due process.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>But it's not hard to see that the "applicable law" scenarion could be</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>misused to impose controls on content.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>For example, the right to privacy and the right to free expression</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>intersect in different places in different countries.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>This is the well-known "margin of appreciation" in Human Rights</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>jurisprudence.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>So, ICANN, by binding itself to 'applicable law' would potentially bind</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>itself to breaching the First Amendment, by having a by-law obligation</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>to 'applicable law' in say the UK (libel), France (celebrity) or China</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>(respect for authority).</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>On 02/03/16 13:20, León Felipe Sánchez Ambía wrote:</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Hi Nigel,</span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>This will be an interesting discussion on our WS2 work plan.</span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>I fail to see why or how ICANN would be obliged to develop such</span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>policies as ICANN is not an entity with (legal) powers to take down</span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>any kind of content. The only situation in which I see ICANN taking</span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>down a site, as opposed to a particular content within a website, is</span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>in case a Court ordered such take down which, in my mind at least,</span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>would be subject to different applicable norms in the context of</span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>international cooperation I think, and for that Court order to be</span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>escalated to ICANN level I would think it would need to be taken</span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>through the path of registrant-registrar-registry before even getting</span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>to ICANN but that is just an assumption, of course.</span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Best regards,</span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>León</span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>El 29/02/2016, a las 8:26 p.m., Nigel Roberts</span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="mailto:nigel@channelisles.net">nigel@channelisles.net</a>> escribió:</span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-35685999">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-35685999</a></span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>This tells me that the right to free expression is one which ICANN</span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>should respect, and not merely 'as required by applicable law'.</span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>It seems to me that 'applicable law' here would have ICANN institute</span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>policies allowing for takedown of the material that is contained in</span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>the books referred to in this article, would it not?</span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list</span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a></span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a></span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a></span><br>
</blockquote>
<span></span><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
<span>Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list</span><br>
<span><a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a></span><br>
<span><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a></span><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a></span><br><span><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a></span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>