<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"><base href="x-msg://180/"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">> <font color="#1f4e79" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 15px;">…</span></font><font color="#1f4e79" face="Calibri, sans-serif" size="3"> Whois reviews start from the premise that current policy is correct and should not be changed and all we need to do is review its effectiveness?</font><div><font color="#1f4e79" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font color="#1f4e79" face="Calibri, sans-serif">Well, actually, the current Whois policy is not correct, and should be changed.</font></div><div><font color="#1f4e79" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font color="#1f4e79" face="Calibri, sans-serif">CW</font></div><div><font color="#1f4e79" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font color="#1f4e79" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><br></font><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 78, 121); "><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>On 29 Apr 2016, at 18:08, "Mueller, Milton L" <<a href="mailto:milton@gatech.edu">milton@gatech.edu</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Thomas,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Forgive me but I have no idea what you are agreeing with here. Steve’s statement contains a number of internal contradictions so I can’t tell.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Are you agreeing with this:<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">“</span>I do believe we have to find a way to be more efficient and coordinated when we have multiple interacting processes, and collection of whois and directory services activities is probably the premier example at the moment.”<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Or this:<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">“I don’t think equating a PDP with a review is the right approach.”<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 78, 121); ">Since a PDP always involves a review of existing policy and does not necessarily change existing policy, I don’t understand why this would not be duplication.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 78, 121); "> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Or do you agree with this factually incorrect statement:<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">“</span>In principle, reviews start from a neutral position and assess the situation.”<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 78, 121); ">Incorrect because the Whois reviews start from the premise that current policy is correct and should not be changed and all we need to do is review its effectiveness?<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 78, 121); "> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></a></div><div style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-width: 1.5pt; border-left-color: blue; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt; "><div><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: 3pt 0in 0in; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[mailto:accountability-<a href="mailto:cross-community-bounces@icann.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Thomas Rickert<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Thursday, April 28, 2016 10:10 AM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Steve Crocker <<a href="mailto:steve@shinkuro.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">steve@shinkuro.com</a>><br><b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [CCWG-ACCT] The whois/RDS-RT bylaw vs. current activities<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">I do agree, Steve.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">Thomas<o:p></o:p></p><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 13pt; ">---</span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><a href="http://rickert.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">rickert.net</a><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><br>Am 28.04.2016 um 15:55 schrieb Steve Crocker <<a href="mailto:steve@shinkuro.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">steve@shinkuro.com</a>>:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">Speaking for myself, without benefit of coordination with my colleagues on the ICANN Board or with staff, my quick reaction is a PDP is not a substitute for a review. I do believe we have to find a way to be more efficient and coordinated when we have multiple interacting processes, and collection of whois and directory services activities is probably the premier example at the moment. We don’t have a solution at the moment, but I don’t think equating a PDP with a review is the right approach. In principle, reviews start from a neutral position and assess the situation. In contrast, policy development processes start with the premise that a policy is needed and the bulk of the activity during a PDP is the creation and shaping of that policy. Reviews can lead to PDPs, but they’re not interchangeable.<br><br>Steve<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">On Apr 28, 2016, at 9:12 AM, Andrew Sullivan <<a href="mailto:ajs@anvilwalrusden.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">ajs@anvilwalrusden.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">Hi,<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">In thinking about the way the bylaws require the regular RTs and how<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">those might interact with other processes, I'm wondering whether we<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">think it would be consistent with the report to say that, if a PDP is<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">going on about any topic that is subject to regular RT, then the PDP<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">can be counted as fulfilling the purposes of the RT?<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">It seems to me that this is consistent with the point of the regular<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">RT requirement (i.e. ensuring that the review happens in a timely way)<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">without entailing that we waste time, money, and energy in multiple,<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">potentially conflicting efforts on the same topic.<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">Have I missed something?<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">A<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">--<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">Andrew Sullivan<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><a href="mailto:ajs@anvilwalrusden.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">ajs@anvilwalrusden.com</a><o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a><o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><br>_______________________________________________<br>Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a><br><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a><o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a><br><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>