<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hi Milton,<div class="">of course I forgive you. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to help shed some light on my thinking.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Firstly, Andrew asked about the relationship between RTs and PDP in general and Steve mentioned whois /RDS as a an example. Hence, I read this a being a general question and Steve’s response to be general and not just focused the whois / RDS issue.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">More info below...</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">Am 29.04.2016 um 18:08 schrieb Mueller, Milton L <<a href="mailto:milton@gatech.edu" class="">milton@gatech.edu</a>>:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Thomas,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Forgive me but I have no idea what you are agreeing with here. Steve’s statement contains a number of internal contradictions so I can’t tell.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Are you agreeing with this:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">“</span>I do believe we have to find a way to be more efficient and coordinated when we have multiple interacting processes, and collection of whois and directory services activities is probably the premier example at the moment.”<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>I do agree that we need a more co-ordinated approach to reviews and PDP work. To give another example: If you take the whole RPM topic (UDRP, IGO-INGO etc), it clearly shows that different processes on related or interlinking issues are under way and that take resources. I do see room for improvement on this, which would also lead to less burden for the community, reduce the risk of duplicate efforts and increase chances of more timely solutions (which is more rewarding for volunteers, too).</div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Or this:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">“I don’t think equating a PDP with a review is the right approach.”<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 78, 121);" class="">Since a PDP always involves a review of existing policy and does not necessarily change existing policy, I don’t understand why this would not be duplication.</span></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>I think Avri described the different quite nicely, so please insert Avi’s mail here...</div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 78, 121);" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 78, 121);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Or do you agree with this factually incorrect statement:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">“</span>In principle, reviews start from a neutral position and assess the situation.”<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 78, 121);" class="">Incorrect because the Whois reviews start from the premise that current policy is correct and should not be changed and all we need to do is review its effectiveness?</span></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>As mentioned before, I understood the question to be of general nature. Reviews take a fresh look at the present situation and come up, if any, with suggestions where improvements shall be made or things need to be updated to match current requirements. </div><div><br class=""></div><div>I hope this answers your questions. </div><div><br class=""></div><div>Best,</div><div>Thomas</div><div><br class=""></div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 78, 121);" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 78, 121);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><a name="_MailEndCompose" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></a></div><div style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-color: blue; border-left-width: 1.5pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt;" class=""><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Thomas Rickert<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Thursday, April 28, 2016 10:10 AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Steve Crocker <<a href="mailto:steve@shinkuro.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">steve@shinkuro.com</a>><br class=""><b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [CCWG-ACCT] The whois/RDS-RT bylaw vs. current activities<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">I do agree, Steve.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Thomas<o:p class=""></o:p></p><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 13pt;" class="">---</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><a href="http://rickert.net/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">rickert.net</a><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><br class="">Am 28.04.2016 um 15:55 schrieb Steve Crocker <<a href="mailto:steve@shinkuro.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">steve@shinkuro.com</a>>:<o:p class=""></o:p></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Speaking for myself, without benefit of coordination with my colleagues on the ICANN Board or with staff, my quick reaction is a PDP is not a substitute for a review. I do believe we have to find a way to be more efficient and coordinated when we have multiple interacting processes, and collection of whois and directory services activities is probably the premier example at the moment. We don’t have a solution at the moment, but I don’t think equating a PDP with a review is the right approach. In principle, reviews start from a neutral position and assess the situation. In contrast, policy development processes start with the premise that a policy is needed and the bulk of the activity during a PDP is the creation and shaping of that policy. Reviews can lead to PDPs, but they’re not interchangeable.<br class=""><br class="">Steve<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">On Apr 28, 2016, at 9:12 AM, Andrew Sullivan <<a href="mailto:ajs@anvilwalrusden.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">ajs@anvilwalrusden.com</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Hi,<o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">In thinking about the way the bylaws require the regular RTs and how<o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">those might interact with other processes, I'm wondering whether we<o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">think it would be consistent with the report to say that, if a PDP is<o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">going on about any topic that is subject to regular RT, then the PDP<o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">can be counted as fulfilling the purposes of the RT?<o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">It seems to me that this is consistent with the point of the regular<o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">RT requirement (i.e. ensuring that the review happens in a timely way)<o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">without entailing that we waste time, money, and energy in multiple,<o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">potentially conflicting efforts on the same topic.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Have I missed something?<o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Best regards,<o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">A<o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">--<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Andrew Sullivan<o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><a href="mailto:ajs@anvilwalrusden.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">ajs@anvilwalrusden.com</a><o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">_______________________________________________<o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list<o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a><o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community" style="color: purple; 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