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<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'>I am not so sure, Nigel. <div><br></div><div>We have had this debate in the US back from 1997 forward, but that never stopped ICANN being established, nor the functioning of the IANA without intrusion from the USG. </div><div><br></div><div>I do not accept your analogy, and suggest that we should all stay calm and focus on the work, and ICANN should focus on answering questions, wherever they come from. </div><div><br></div><div>To be globally accountable is a tall order. None of us want a UN oversight role, and of course, NTIA has said it cannot accept that. So back to the 'tall order' phase of the work.</div><div><br></div><div>M</div><div><br></div><div><br><br><div>> To: kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com<br>> From: nigel@channelisles.net<br>> Date: Sun, 22 May 2016 18:11:46 +0100<br>> CC: accountability-cross-community@icann.org<br>> Subject: Re: [CCWG-ACCT] latest letter from Cruz et al FYI<br>> <br>> It's a way to create a property interest in the common-law world, called <br>> 'proprietary estoppel'.<br>> <br>> Let's say I'm a farmer. I have someone who is a labourer.<br>> He works for me for many years for no, or minimal payment.<br>> <br>> This is because I say to him "don't worry, my friend, since I have no <br>> children, I'm leaving you the whole farm in my Will." After I die, it <br>> turns out I forgot to ever write the Will.<br>> <br>> So the whole farm will either go to very distant relatives of mine, or <br>> to the Queen.<br>> <br>> But because of the representation, and the reliance on it, property <br>> rights to own the farm could have been created over the farm in favour <br>> of the labourer. (But all the elements must be present -- that's a <br>> matter of the facts, not law). It's like legal magic, really!<br>> <br>> It's a bit of a shifting sands too, because a US court may address <br>> equitable right like s differently to an English court, and an <br>> Australian court could differ from both of them.<br>> <br>> But because of the common heritage, they are tributaries of the same <br>> river, and do 'mingle their waters'.<br>> <br>> Application of the concept is left as an exercise for the reader.<br>> <br>> <br>> On 22/05/16 17:29, Kavouss Arasteh wrote:<br>> > Dear Nigel,<br>> > Being used to your ability to argue for any term, the so-called<br>> > Invention of DNS (according to your analysis/description ) goes with<br>> > individual/ individuals and not a country. By the way ,I dd not quite<br>> > catch what did you mean by "/a representation coupled with reliance<br>> > thereupon."/<br>> > Tks<br>> > Kavous<br>> > //<br>> ><br>> > o<br>> ><br>> > 2016-05-22 18:25 GMT+02:00 Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com<br>> > <mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com>>:<br>> ><br>> > Dear Nigel,<br>> > Being used to your ability to argue for any term, the so-called<br>> > Invention of DNS (<br>> ><br>> > 2016-05-22 18:18 GMT+02:00 Nigel Roberts <nigel@channelisles.net<br>> > <mailto:nigel@channelisles.net>>:<br>> ><br>> > It's not a problem. I understood the intention.<br>> ><br>> > The difference is that the DNS *WAS* invented, not discovered<br>> > however.<br>> ><br>> > And invention can certainly create property rights.<br>> ><br>> > As -- in US and common-law countries -- a representation coupled<br>> > with reliance thereupon.<br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> > On 22/05/16 16:16, Arasteh wrote:<br>> ><br>> > Dear All<br>> > Sorry for inattention using " invented" I correct it to be "<br>> > discovered"<br>> > Regards<br>> > Kavouss<br>> ><br>> > Sent from my iPhone<br>> ><br>> > On 22 May 2016, at 15:48, Kavouss Arasteh<br>> > <kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com <mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com><br>> > <mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com<br>> > <mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com>>> wrote:<br>> ><br>> > Dear All,<br>> > I hesitate to comment on the letter sent but looking at<br>> > the messages<br>> > exchanged, I wish to briefly comment in an individual<br>> > capacity ( A<br>> > CCWG participant only ) as follows<br>> > 1. The analysis made by the authors of the letter were<br>> > made with some<br>> > degree of partiality and with lack of full understanding<br>> > of the process .<br>> > 2. As for the issue of "DNS Property" the attention of<br>> > the authors are<br>> > drawn to the fact that , DNS like ORIBITAL/ SPECTRUM<br>> > RESOURCES are<br>> > natural resources and does not belong to anybody. It can<br>> > be used by<br>> > any applicant under certain Rule and procedure<br>> > .Therefore there is no<br>> > ownership on DNS at all.<br>> > It is evident that the internet has been mostly<br>> > initiated by and from<br>> > a given country but it does not mean that such country<br>> > is the owner of<br>> > the DNS. While It belongs to no body, it belongs to<br>> > everybody.<br>> > The inventor of the electromagnetic waves and the<br>> > countries in which<br>> > the issue was developed has never ever claimed to be the<br>> > owner of the<br>> > spectrum .<br>> > Kavouss<br>> ><br>> > 2016-05-22 13:35 GMT+02:00 Nigel Roberts<br>> > <nigel@channelisles.net <mailto:nigel@channelisles.net><br>> > <mailto:nigel@channelisles.net<br>> > <mailto:nigel@channelisles.net>>>:<br>> ><br>> > I'm content to discuss it here - I was merely<br>> > offering to take the<br>> > discussion aside in case it was seen as off-topic<br>> > (which is isn't,<br>> > IMO, that much).<br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> > On 22/05/16 11:36, Dr Eberhard W Lisse wrote:<br>> ><br>> > on Act.<br>> ><br>> > _______________________________________________<br>> > Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list<br>> > Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org<br>> > <mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org><br>> > <mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org<br>> > <mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org>><br>> > https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community<br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list<br>> Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org<br>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community<br></div></div> </div></body>
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