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<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'>My comment is intended to be neutral in tone, but to mention perhaps a lesson learned.<br><br>Transcripts of sub groups meetings might need to be instigated from the beginning, with an understanding of that for ICANN support.<br><br>I am speaking from experience in a different fora, the UN CSTD, where I was able finally to get an agreement to transcripts, and then, viola, no $.<br><br>I note that the IGF Secretariat donated the WEBex, and ICANN the transcripts. That is a very different world from our ICANN world, but I hope that we will simply recommend, and then advocate for transcripts not just recordings for this important work.<br><br>As I follow the ICANN budget, you can count on my strong advocacy that this is a basic, not an option.<br><br>Others on this list are also following the ICANN budget, and we can also advise the Board, in the Public Forums of this important support... <br>As a given,<br><br><hr>From: el@lisse.na<br>Date: Mon, 30 May 2016 19:39:10 +0100<br>To: accountability-cross-community@icann.org<br>CC: directors@omadhina.NET<br>Subject: Re: [CCWG-ACCT] CCWG-Accountability - Preparing for WS2<br><br><div>Transcripts, shranscripts, so what?</div><div id=ecxAppleMailSignature><br></div><div id=ecxAppleMailSignature>Transition is done, the chartering organizations' constituents don't read our report or proposals anyway, so why do we even bother with WS2?</div><div id=ecxAppleMailSignature><br></div><div id=ecxAppleMailSignature>Hardly surprising.</div><div id=ecxAppleMailSignature><br></div><div id=ecxAppleMailSignature>el<br><br>-- <div>Sent from Dr Lisse's iPad mini 4</div></div><div><br>On 30 May 2016, at 18:55, Edward Morris <<a href="mailto:egmorris1@toast.net">egmorris1@toast.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote><div><span style="font-family:Arial, Helvetica, Sans-Serif;font-size:12px;"><div>Agree with Robin.</div>
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<div>I would also point out that given our creation, as Thomas was quoted in The Economist as saying, of an organisation resembling a state, in future years issues such as intent may be important in resolving irp disputes and elsewhere. Transcripts would provide a historical record that other forms of media can not equal.</div>
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<div>Ed</div>
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<div><span style="font-family:tahoma,arial,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;"><b>From</b>: "Robin Gross" <<a href="mailto:robin@ipjustice.org">robin@ipjustice.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent</b>: Monday, May 30, 2016 6:15 PM<br>
<b>To</b>: "<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject</b>: Re: [CCWG-ACCT] CCWG-Accountability - Preparing for WS2</span>
<div> </div>
Since one of the agreed objectives of WS2 all along has been to "institute a culture of transparency at ICANN," this proposal to not release transcripts of discussions in the accountability subgroups runs contrary to our stated goal.  
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<div>Not everyone has the time to listen to the entire meeting recording and may be scanning only for specific words, which can’t be done with a recording, so this policy limits the number of people who can effectively access the contents of the meeting discussions.  I think this would be a step backwards in transparency - at exactly the time we’ve pledged to move forward on transparency at ICANN.
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<div>Robin 
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<div> 
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<blockquote>
<div>On May 30, 2016, at 9:42 AM, Greg Shatan <<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
 
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<div class=ecxgmail_default style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;">Bernie,</div>
<div class=ecxgmail_default style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;"> </div>
<div class=ecxgmail_default style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;">That was quite clear in my note (please see the last sentence).  My concerns stand.</div>
<div class=ecxgmail_default style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;"> </div>
<div class=ecxgmail_default style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;">Without a transcription, the only method for catching up on a particular meeting is listening to the entire recording (which is more time consuming than reviewing a transcript) and without notes, the only way to review what happened over a series of meetings are skeletal "action items" (or again, listening or re-listening to a recording).</div>
<div class=ecxgmail_default style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;"> </div>
<div class=ecxgmail_default style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;">Greg</div>
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<div class=ecxgmail_extra> 
<div class=ecxgmail_quote>On Mon, May 30, 2016 at 12:31 PM, Bernard Turcotte <span dir=ltr><<a href="mailto:turcotte.bernard@gmail.com" target=_blank>turcotte.bernard@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:
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<div class=ecxgmail_default style="font-size:small;">Greg,</div>
<div class=ecxgmail_default style="font-size:small;"> </div>
<div class=ecxgmail_default style="font-size:small;">Just to be clear recordings of all calls will continue to be made available after each call of each group.</div>
<div class=ecxgmail_default style="font-size:small;"> </div>
<div class=ecxgmail_default style="font-size:small;">Hope this helps.</div>
<div class=ecxgmail_default style="font-size:small;"> </div>
<div class=ecxgmail_default style="font-size:small;">Cheers.</div>
<div class=ecxgmail_default style="font-size:small;"> </div>
<div class=ecxgmail_default style="font-size:small;"><span class=ecxHOEnZb><font color="#888888">B.</font></span></div>
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<div class=ecxgmail_extra> 
<div class=ecxgmail_quote>On Mon, May 30, 2016 at 12:14 PM, Greg Shatan <span dir=ltr><<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target=_blank>gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:
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<div class=ecxgmail_default style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;">I'm more concerned about a different area of (lack of) support:</div>
<div class=ecxgmail_default style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;"> </div>
<div class=ecxgmail_default style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;">"No note taking by staff, beyond action items, and no transcriptions."</div>
<div class=ecxgmail_default style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;"> </div>
<div class=ecxgmail_default style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;">This will make it more difficult to keep the thread of our work going from week to week.</div>
<div class=ecxgmail_default style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;"> </div>
<div class=ecxgmail_default style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;">I think we may have relied too heavily on staff drafting of the actual report in Work Stream 1.  While I don't necessarily relish substantial drafting responsibilities, it's important that the end product be the work of the community.  The staff (and in particular Bernie) did an amazing job, but it still felt like an odd "intermediation" at times.</div>
<div class=ecxgmail_default style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;"> </div>
<div class=ecxgmail_default style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;">Meeting notes and transcriptions are important tools in getting to that point.  Hopefully, the action items will be sufficiently detailed to allow a meeting's results to be comprehensible to those that miss that call, but something will be lost when the sole record of that meeting is a recording and a bullet-point list of "action items."</div>
<div class=ecxgmail_default style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;"> </div>
<div class=ecxgmail_default style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;">Greg</div>
<div class=ecxgmail_default style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;"> </div>
<div class=ecxgmail_default style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;">Greg</div>
</div>
<div class=ecxgmail_extra> 
<div class=ecxgmail_quote>On Mon, May 30, 2016 at 6:29 AM, Finn Petersen <span dir=ltr><<a href="mailto:FinPet@erst.dk" target=_blank>FinPet@erst.dk</a>></span> wrote:
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<p class=ecxMsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d;">I fully support the idea from Jorge.</span></p>
<p class=ecxMsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d;"> </span></p>
<p class=ecxMsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d;">Best,</span></p>
<p class=ecxMsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d;"> </span></p>
<p class=ecxMsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d;">Finn</span></p>
<p class=ecxMsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d;"> </span></p>
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<p class=ecxMsoNormal><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";">Fra:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";"> <a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target=_blank>accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target=_blank>accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>] <b>På vegne af </b><a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch" target=_blank>Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><br>
<b>Sendt:</b> 30. maj 2016 12:13<br>
<b>Til:</b> <a href="mailto:turcotte.bernard@gmail.com" target=_blank>turcotte.bernard@gmail.com</a>; <a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target=_blank>accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Emne:</b> Re: [CCWG-ACCT] CCWG-Accountability - Preparing for WS2</span></p>
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<p class=ecxMsoNormal> </p>
<p class=ecxMsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d;">Dear co-chairs, dear all</span></p>
<p class=ecxMsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d;"> </span></p>
<p class=ecxMsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d;">I was finally having a look at these documents and an apparent inconsistency struck my eye: on the one hand, it is foreseen that the subgroups will do the „heavy lifting“ including drafting etc.. But, on the other hand, the subgroup members are expected to draft their own documents.</span></p>
<p class=ecxMsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d;"> </span></p>
<p class=ecxMsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d;">This could delegate and impose probably too much of a burden on the volunteers and have also undesired side-effects on the inclusiveness and diversity of the subgroups and their outputs, as drafting is not only extremely time intensive –a resource which is unequally distributed- but also requires native or near-native English writing skills.</span></p>
<p class=ecxMsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d;"> </span></p>
<p class=ecxMsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d;">Hence, I would advocate a more balanced approach, with our professional and neutral staff still taking care of the drafting of each subgroups’ key documents (e.g. initial issues description, scoping paper, draft output docs, output doc, etc) as a general rule – with subgroup participants taking over documents that have a more contingent/ad hoc character.</span></p>
<p class=ecxMsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d;"> </span></p>
<p class=ecxMsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d;">Hope this may be agreeable to all</span></p>
<p class=ecxMsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d;"> </span></p>
<p class=ecxMsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d;">Best</span></p>
<p class=ecxMsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d;"> </span></p>
<p class=ecxMsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d;">Jorge </span></p>
<p class=ecxMsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d;"> </span></p>
<p class=ecxMsoNormal><b><span lang=DE style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">Von:</span></b><span lang=DE style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> <a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target=_blank>accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target=_blank>mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>] <b>Im Auftrag von </b>Bernard Turcotte<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Mittwoch, 25. Mai 2016 18:21<br>
<b>An:</b> Accountability Cross Community <<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target=_blank>accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> [CCWG-ACCT] CCWG-Accountability - Preparing for WS2</span></p>
<p class=ecxMsoNormal><span lang=DE-CH> </span></p>
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<p class=ecxMsoNormal><span lang=DE-CH style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">Dear all,</span></p>
<p class=ecxMsoNormal><span lang=DE-CH style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p>
<p class=ecxMsoNormal><span lang=DE-CH style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">As the work on the Bylaws comes to a close, we have spent some time preparing and thinking through Work Stream 2. Our official Work Stream 2 kick-off is on Sunday 26 June at ICANN56 in Helsinki. To prepare for the kick off, we would like to have a plenary CCWG-Accountability next week on Tuesday 31 May at 19:00 UTC. The proposed agenda for the call is as follows:</span></p>
<p class=ecxMsoNormal><span lang=DE-CH style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p>
<p class=ecxMsoNormal><b><span lang=DE-CH style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">Agenda for CCWG meeting on 31 May at 19:00 UTC:</span></b></p>
<p class=ecxMsoNormal><span lang=DE-CH style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">1. Opening Remarks</span></p>
<p class=ecxMsoNormal><span lang=DE-CH style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">2. Budget discussion</span></p>
<p class=ecxMsoNormal><span lang=DE-CH style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">3. Preparation for WS2 kickoff in Helsinki</span></p>
<span lang=DE-CH style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;">·</span><span lang=DE-CH style="font-size:7.0pt;">         </span><span lang=DE-CH style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">What to do before Helsinki</span><BR>
<span lang=DE-CH style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;">·</span><span lang=DE-CH style="font-size:7.0pt;">         </span><span lang=DE-CH style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">What are next steps (after Helsinki)</span><BR>
<p class=ecxMsoNormal><span lang=DE-CH style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">4. AOB</span></p>
<p class=ecxMsoNormal><span lang=DE-CH style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">5. Closing Remarks</span></p>
<p class=ecxMsoNormal><span lang=DE-CH style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p>
<p class=ecxMsoNormal><span lang=DE-CH style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">Attached you will find a presentation on the budget that we have prepared with the help of Bernard Turcotte and ICANN staff in their Project Costing Support Team function. We will need to submit this budget to the ICANN Board for their consideration and approval before the start of FY17 in July. As you will see from the presentation, there are a few areas that we may want to discuss as a full group before submitting our proposal. Please initiate the discussion on the CCWG-Accountability list, and we’ll continue the discussion on the call.</span></p>
<p class=ecxMsoNormal><span lang=DE-CH> </span></p>
<p class=ecxMsoNormal><span lang=DE-CH style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">You will also find attached a presentation on preparing the WS2 kickoff in Helsinki.</span></p>
<p class=ecxMsoNormal><span lang=DE-CH style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";"> </span></p>
<p class=ecxMsoNormal><span lang=DE-CH style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">Best,</span></p>
<p class=ecxMsoNormal><span lang=DE-CH style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">Mathieu, Thomas, Leon</span></p>
<p class=ecxMsoNormal><i><span lang=DE-CH style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";">CCWG-Accountability co-Chairs</span></i></p>
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