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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Sunday 19 June 2016 12:11 PM, Seun
Ojedeji wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAD_dc6jcU2mHXP=8D3RF0J_5z6fpGT0EaE92=f1VJYEQtA=pDw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<p dir="ltr">Hello Parminder,</p>
<p dir="ltr">As an African, I would tend to agree with your point
and wish that your conclusion point was the case (as a reactive
measure). However as you know, we have discussed this
extensively in the past (on different fora) and we found that
the means to the end of such is so complicated and the end
itself would ultimately create a govt lead ICANN which i
certainly don't want.</p>
</blockquote>
<br>
If ICANN functioning under California non profit law - made by
government - and subject to US jurisdiction - also made of and by
governments (and governments alone) - can continue to be seem and
treated as a multistakeholder organisation, to your and others'
satisfaction, there is simply no reason why ICANN cannot be and
function similarly under international jurisdiction, created by
international law.<br>
<br>
Your preferring US law/ jurisdiction over international law/
jurisdiction is, simply and nothing more than, a statement of your
preferring the US jurisdiction over international jurisdiction (
which, while you have a right to your choices, I consider
democratically unfortunate). None is less complex that the other.
There are hundreds of international organisations functioning under
international law, and so can ICANN. And if ICANN has some special
contexts and needs, that would be met by relevant innovations in
international law, but not by a democratic regression to subjecting
the world to the US law. Democracy is precious, and people have done
much to achieve it. Please dont treat it lightly, citing
technicalities against it. That is extremely unfortunate. Sorry for
the analogy but it directly applies; every tyrant/ dictator is prone
to argue that democracy is messy, and difficult and, as you say,
complicated. But such an argument does not carry, does it.<br>
<br>
To call an ICANN which is constituted under US law, and fully
answerable to US jurisdiction (meaning US government, its all
branches), as fully multistakeholder;<br>
<br>
and, at the same time, an ICANN functioning exactly in the same
manner, but now under international law and jurisdiction, as (to
quote you) becoming a government let ICANN <br>
<br>
is simply to make a misleading statement. <br>
<br>
Although, the fallacy contained in it is as clear as daylight, among
status quoists circles this statement or argument continues to be
made and re-made. But, for other than the fully converted and
therefore impervious to simple logic, and demands of that high value
of democracy, it takes away nothing from the my arguments regarding
the unfairness of ICANN being subject to US jurisdiction, and the
urgent need to move it to international jurisdiction, which you are
right, I have often made on various fora, and will keep making. It
is a political act. <br>
<br>
regards, parminder <br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAD_dc6jcU2mHXP=8D3RF0J_5z6fpGT0EaE92=f1VJYEQtA=pDw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<p dir="ltr">Regards<br>
Sent from my LG G4<br>
Kindly excuse brevity and typos</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 19 Jun 2016 07:28, "parminder" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net">parminder@itforchange.net</a></a>>
wrote:<br type="attribution">
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<div class="quoted-text"> <br>
<br>
<div>On Sunday 19 June 2016 11:31 AM, Jordan Carter wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">I may have missed something, Parminder,
but isn't it a plus rather than a negative for ICANN
accountability that process errors can be appealed and
the company held to account for them?</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Jordan<br>
<br>
</div>
In may make ICANN accountable, but to a system that is
unaccountable to the global public, and is only accountable
to the US public (there could even be cases where these two
could be in partial conflict) - that in sum is the
jurisdiction issue. ICANN accountability issue is different,
though linked, bec it has to be accountable, but to the
right system, which itself is accountable to the global
public. Different 'layers' of accountability are implicated
here, as people in IG space will like to say! <br>
<br>
Here the issue is, a US court has no right to (exclusively)
adjudicate the rights of the African people, bec African
people had no part in making or legitimising the system that
the US court is a part of. Dont you see what problem we will
be facing if the US court says that fairness of process or
whatever demands that .africa goes to DCA. If you were an
African, what would you feel?<br>
<br>
An ICANN under international law will be subject to only an
international judicial process, which Africa is equally a
part of, and gives legitimacy to. <br>
<font color="#888888"> <br>
parminder <br>
</font>
<div class="quoted-text"> <br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Jordan</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 19 June 2016 at 07:26,
parminder <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net">parminder@itforchange.net</a></a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><span> <br>
<br>
<div>On Sunday 19 June 2016 04:13 AM, Paul
Rosenzweig wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p dir="ltr">The Economist | A virtual turf
war: The scramble for .africa <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.economist.com/news/middle-east-and-africa/21700661-lawyers-california-are-denying-africans-their-own-domain-scramble?frsc=dg%7Cd"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.economist.com/news/middle-east-and-africa/21700661-lawyers-california-are-denying-africans-their-own-domain-scramble?frsc=dg%7Cd">http://www.economist.com/news/middle-east-and-africa/21700661-lawyers-california-are-denying-africans-their-own-domain-scramble?frsc=dg%7Cd</a></a></p>
</blockquote>
<br>
</span> Not that this fact is being discovered
now, but it still is the simplest and clearest
proof that US jurisdiction over ICANN's policy
processes and decisions is absolutely untenable.
Either the US makes a special legal provision
unilaterally foregoing judicial, legislative and
executive jurisdiction over ICANN policy
functions, or the normal route of ICANN's
incorporation under international law is taken,
making ICANN an international organisation under
international law, and protected from US
jurisdiction under a host country agreement. <br>
<span><font color="#888888"> <br>
parminder <br>
</font></span><span>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p dir="ltr">Paul Rosenzweig</p>
<br>
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-- <br>
<div data-smartmail="gmail_signature">Jordan Carter
<div>Wellington, New Zealand</div>
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