<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Thank you, Tijani, for just tossing out accountability.</div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id="AppleMailSignature">el<br>-- <div>Sent from Dr Lisse's iPad mini 4</div></div><div><br>On 19 Jun 2016, at 10:55, Tijani BEN JEMAA <<a href="mailto:tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn">tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"><font color="#002e7a" class="">Jordan and all,</font><div class=""><font color="#002e7a" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><font color="#002e7a" class="">You are right that the ICANN accountability is an essential thing, and that all concerned parties should have the opportunity to challenge ICANN for any violation of its bylaws and articles.</font></div><div class=""><font color="#002e7a" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><font color="#002e7a" class="">But in this case of dot africa, the issue is too obvious that dotconnectafrica can’t get the support of the African community including Governments. they have at the contrary strong opposition of some of them. And the applicant guide book is too clear on this point: any Geographic application should gain, inter alias, the explicit support of the government(s).</font></div><div class=""><font color="#002e7a" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><font color="#002e7a" class="">All the steps for a positive end of the application of ZACR (officially tasked by the African Union to apply for dot africa on their behalf) were accomplished and the decision of the ICANN was justified.</font></div><div class=""><font color="#002e7a" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><font color="#002e7a" class="">dotconnectafrica argued through the IRP that ICANN wasn’t fair in its decision. The IRP process took too longtime because one of the panel members passed away. There wasn’t a maximum time for the IRP consideration, and that is one of the issues we must tackle in the IRP sub-group about IRP. After the late replacement of the dead member of the panel, everything was to be restarted. this longtime gives rooms for every possible gaming. dont forget that dotconnectafrica has paid a huge amont of money in advertising, communication and sponsoring prior to the opening of the new gTLD round. the result of the IRP for them is vital. </font></div><div class=""><font color="#002e7a" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><font color="#002e7a" class="">ICANN applied the decision of the IRP and dotconnectafrica lost the geographic panel evaluation. Now, they went to the court to delay more and more the delegation of dot africa.</font></div><div class=""><font color="#002e7a" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><font color="#002e7a" class="">In the mean time, the Africans are prevented from having their continental TLD because this game is continuing even if the case is too clear. Where is the public interest here? where is the interest of Africa? As African, I’m too disappointed because we are the hostage of a system that privilege the private interest over the African community one.</font></div><div class=""><font color="#002e7a" class=""> </font><br class=""><div apple-content-edited="true" class="">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; widows: auto; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; widows: auto; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; widows: auto; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div apple-content-edited="true" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(54, 95, 145);" class="">-----------------------------------------------------------------------------</span></div><div apple-content-edited="true" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><b class=""><span style="color: rgb(54, 95, 145);" class="">Tijani BEN JEMAA</span></b></div><div apple-content-edited="true" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(54, 95, 145);" class="">Executive Director</span></div><div apple-content-edited="true" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(54, 95, 145);" class="">Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (</span><b style="color: rgb(54, 95, 145);" class="">FMAI</b><span style="color: rgb(54, 95, 145);" class="">)</span></div><div apple-content-edited="true" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(54, 95, 145);" class="">Phone: +216 98 330 114</span></div><div apple-content-edited="true" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(54, 95, 145);" class=""> </span> <span style="color: rgb(54, 95, 145);" class="">+216 52 385 114</span></div><div apple-content-edited="true" class=""><span style="color: rgb(54, 95, 145);" class="">-----------------------------------------------------------------------------</span></div><br class=""></div></div></div></div></div>
</div>
<br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">Le 19 juin 2016 à 08:11, parminder <<a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net" class="">parminder@itforchange.net</a>> a écrit :</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
<meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type" class="">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Sunday 19 June 2016 12:11 PM, Seun
Ojedeji wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:CAD_dc6jcU2mHXP=8D3RF0J_5z6fpGT0EaE92=f1VJYEQtA=pDw@mail.gmail.com" type="cite" class=""><p dir="ltr" class="">Hello Parminder,</p><p dir="ltr" class="">As an African, I would tend to agree with your point
and wish that your conclusion point was the case (as a reactive
measure). However as you know, we have discussed this
extensively in the past (on different fora) and we found that
the means to the end of such is so complicated and the end
itself would ultimately create a govt lead ICANN which i
certainly don't want.</p>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
If ICANN functioning under California non profit law - made by
government - and subject to US jurisdiction - also made of and by
governments (and governments alone) - can continue to be seem and
treated as a multistakeholder organisation, to your and others'
satisfaction, there is simply no reason why ICANN cannot be and
function similarly under international jurisdiction, created by
international law.<br class="">
<br class="">
Your preferring US law/ jurisdiction over international law/
jurisdiction is, simply and nothing more than, a statement of your
preferring the US jurisdiction over international jurisdiction (
which, while you have a right to your choices, I consider
democratically unfortunate). None is less complex that the other.
There are hundreds of international organisations functioning under
international law, and so can ICANN. And if ICANN has some special
contexts and needs, that would be met by relevant innovations in
international law, but not by a democratic regression to subjecting
the world to the US law. Democracy is precious, and people have done
much to achieve it. Please dont treat it lightly, citing
technicalities against it. That is extremely unfortunate. Sorry for
the analogy but it directly applies; every tyrant/ dictator is prone
to argue that democracy is messy, and difficult and, as you say,
complicated. But such an argument does not carry, does it.<br class="">
<br class="">
To call an ICANN which is constituted under US law, and fully
answerable to US jurisdiction (meaning US government, its all
branches), as fully multistakeholder;<br class="">
<br class="">
and, at the same time, an ICANN functioning exactly in the same
manner, but now under international law and jurisdiction, as (to
quote you) becoming a government let ICANN <br class="">
<br class="">
is simply to make a misleading statement. <br class="">
<br class="">
Although, the fallacy contained in it is as clear as daylight, among
status quoists circles this statement or argument continues to be
made and re-made. But, for other than the fully converted and
therefore impervious to simple logic, and demands of that high value
of democracy, it takes away nothing from the my arguments regarding
the unfairness of ICANN being subject to US jurisdiction, and the
urgent need to move it to international jurisdiction, which you are
right, I have often made on various fora, and will keep making. It
is a political act. <br class="">
<br class="">
regards, parminder <br class="">
<br class="">
<blockquote cite="mid:CAD_dc6jcU2mHXP=8D3RF0J_5z6fpGT0EaE92=f1VJYEQtA=pDw@mail.gmail.com" type="cite" class=""><p dir="ltr" class="">Regards<br class="">
Sent from my LG G4<br class="">
Kindly excuse brevity and typos</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 19 Jun 2016 07:28, "parminder" <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net" class=""></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net">parminder@itforchange.net</a>>
wrote:<br type="attribution" class="">
<blockquote class="quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class="">
<div class="quoted-text"> <br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="">On Sunday 19 June 2016 11:31 AM, Jordan Carter wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">I may have missed something, Parminder,
but isn't it a plus rather than a negative for ICANN
accountability that process errors can be appealed and
the company held to account for them?</div>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
Jordan<br class="">
<br class="">
</div>
In may make ICANN accountable, but to a system that is
unaccountable to the global public, and is only accountable
to the US public (there could even be cases where these two
could be in partial conflict) - that in sum is the
jurisdiction issue. ICANN accountability issue is different,
though linked, bec it has to be accountable, but to the
right system, which itself is accountable to the global
public. Different 'layers' of accountability are implicated
here, as people in IG space will like to say! <br class="">
<br class="">
Here the issue is, a US court has no right to (exclusively)
adjudicate the rights of the African people, bec African
people had no part in making or legitimising the system that
the US court is a part of. Dont you see what problem we will
be facing if the US court says that fairness of process or
whatever demands that .africa goes to DCA. If you were an
African, what would you feel?<br class="">
<br class="">
An ICANN under international law will be subject to only an
international judicial process, which Africa is equally a
part of, and gives legitimacy to. <br class="">
<font color="#888888" class=""> <br class="">
parminder <br class="">
</font>
<div class="quoted-text"> <br class="">
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Jordan</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">On 19 June 2016 at 07:26,
parminder <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net" target="_blank" class=""></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net">parminder@itforchange.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class=""><span class=""> <br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="">On Sunday 19 June 2016 04:13 AM, Paul
Rosenzweig wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class=""><p dir="ltr" class="">The Economist | A virtual turf
war: The scramble for .africa <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.economist.com/news/middle-east-and-africa/21700661-lawyers-california-are-denying-africans-their-own-domain-scramble?frsc=dg%7Cd" target="_blank" class=""></a><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.economist.com/news/middle-east-and-africa/21700661-lawyers-california-are-denying-africans-their-own-domain-scramble?frsc=dg%7Cd">http://www.economist.com/news/middle-east-and-africa/21700661-lawyers-california-are-denying-africans-their-own-domain-scramble?frsc=dg%7Cd</a></p>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
</span> Not that this fact is being discovered
now, but it still is the simplest and clearest
proof that US jurisdiction over ICANN's policy
processes and decisions is absolutely untenable.
Either the US makes a special legal provision
unilaterally foregoing judicial, legislative and
executive jurisdiction over ICANN policy
functions, or the normal route of ICANN's
incorporation under international law is taken,
making ICANN an international organisation under
international law, and protected from US
jurisdiction under a host country agreement. <br class="">
<span class=""><font color="#888888" class=""> <br class="">
parminder <br class="">
</font></span><span class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class=""><p dir="ltr" class="">Paul Rosenzweig</p>
<br class="">
<fieldset class=""></fieldset>
<br class="">
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<br class="">
<br clear="all" class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
-- <br class="">
<div data-smartmail="gmail_signature" class="">Jordan Carter
<div class="">Wellington, New Zealand</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
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