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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Paraminder:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">You keep advocating for ICANN to be transferred to “international jurisdiction”, but can you go beyond that slogan and articulate exactly what organizational
form and subject to what enforcement authority you refer?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I presume that you are not advocating that ICANN relocate its legal jurisdiction to that of another nation, as that would simply raise the same concerns that
you have expressed in regard to the U.S. legal system (not U.S. Government control, as you incorrectly infer) within the context of a different nation-state.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">If you are advocating that ICANN become a UN-type IGO then such a result is directly contradictory to the conditions set by the NTIA for the transition – and
if there is widespread support for such a bait-and-switch result we should all know it now before the transition occurs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Making ICANN subject to international jurisdiction also raises the question of what adjudication forum would address relevant legal disputes, which in ICANN’s
case are primarily of contract interpretation and enforcement. The International Criminal Court would not be relevant; and the International Court of Justice only permits nation-states to be parties before it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">There is also the issue of recognition of ICANN’s proposed “international jurisdiction” status. Generally, in the instance of organizations created by multilateral
treaty, each nation has the option of recognizing and participating in the arrangement – or not.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">My own views on this subject are quite clear – see
<a href="http://www.circleid.com/posts/20160523_the_irritating_irresolution_of_icann_jurisdiction/">
http://www.circleid.com/posts/20160523_the_irritating_irresolution_of_icann_jurisdiction/</a> :<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.25in"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">For the sake of legal clarity and organizational stability, it is incumbent upon WS2 participants to resolve this matter as soon
as feasible — and to come down decisively in favor of a permanent link between ICANN and U.S. jurisdiction. If this were a matter of first impression then impartial consideration of an alternative national jurisdiction might be in order. But it is a not a
matter of first impression, and multiple factors weigh in favor of enshrining ICANN's permanent status as a California non-profit corporation in a Fundamental Bylaw:<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="color:#1F497D;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">ICANN has embodied California non-profit status since its founding in 1998<o:p></o:p></span></i></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="color:#1F497D;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">With the EC and PTI required to be California non-profits by revised Fundamental Bylaws, an inconsistent status for ICANN
itself could raise confounding legal and policy issues for both accountability and control<o:p></o:p></span></i></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="color:#1F497D;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">The accountability plan has been designed to be maximally effective in the context of California law<o:p></o:p></span></i></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="color:#1F497D;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">The U.S. legal system is well regarded for its dedication to objective determinations under the rule of law<o:p></o:p></span></i></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="color:#1F497D;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Perhaps most importantly, the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution guarantees that the U.S. government cannot take actions
that would coerce ICANN into using its root zone control to abridge free speech.<o:p></o:p></span></i></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">If you are going to advocate for ignoring all the points cited above and ICANN’s transfer to “international jurisdiction” then I would respectfully ask that
you go beyond that phrase and enlighten us all as to exactly what form this would take, how it would be achieved, how it would ensure that ICANN would not become subject to governmental control, and in which venue contract and other legal disputes pertaining
to ICANN would be resolved? You state, “There are hundreds of international organizations functioning under international law, and so can ICANN”, but can you go beyond that and provide examples of relevant examples for ICANN that are not UN agencies and thereby
subject to multilateral political influence?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Until you provide us with the “simple logic” of such further details I must regard your advocacy as merely rhetorical with no well-considered substance behind
it, and thereby incapable of amassing consensus support within an ICANN community that has just labored two-plus years to create transition and accountability proposals that are firmly rooted in U.S. jurisdiction.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Sincerely,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Philip
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">Virtualaw LLC</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">202-559-8597/Direct</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">Twitter: @VlawDC</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">"Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey</span></i></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"> accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org [mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>parminder<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, June 19, 2016 3:12 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Seun Ojedeji<br>
<b>Cc:</b> accountability-cross-community@icann.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CCWG-ACCT] The Economist | A virtual turf war: The scramble for .africa<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Sunday 19 June 2016 12:11 PM, Seun Ojedeji wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p>Hello Parminder,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>As an African, I would tend to agree with your point and wish that your conclusion point was the case (as a reactive measure). However as you know, we have discussed this extensively in the past (on different fora) and we found that the means to the end
of such is so complicated and the end itself would ultimately create a govt lead ICANN which i certainly don't want.<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
If ICANN functioning under California non profit law - made by government - and subject to US jurisdiction - also made of and by governments (and governments alone) - can continue to be seem and treated as a multistakeholder organisation, to your and others'
satisfaction, there is simply no reason why ICANN cannot be and function similarly under international jurisdiction, created by international law.<br>
<br>
Your preferring US law/ jurisdiction over international law/ jurisdiction is, simply and nothing more than, a statement of your preferring the US jurisdiction over international jurisdiction ( which, while you have a right to your choices, I consider democratically
unfortunate). None is less complex that the other. There are hundreds of international organisations functioning under international law, and so can ICANN. And if ICANN has some special contexts and needs, that would be met by relevant innovations in international
law, but not by a democratic regression to subjecting the world to the US law. Democracy is precious, and people have done much to achieve it. Please dont treat it lightly, citing technicalities against it. That is extremely unfortunate. Sorry for the analogy
but it directly applies; every tyrant/ dictator is prone to argue that democracy is messy, and difficult and, as you say, complicated. But such an argument does not carry, does it.<br>
<br>
To call an ICANN which is constituted under US law, and fully answerable to US jurisdiction (meaning US government, its all branches), as fully multistakeholder;<br>
<br>
and, at the same time, an ICANN functioning exactly in the same manner, but now under international law and jurisdiction, as (to quote you) becoming a government let ICANN
<br>
<br>
is simply to make a misleading statement. <br>
<br>
Although, the fallacy contained in it is as clear as daylight, among status quoists circles this statement or argument continues to be made and re-made. But, for other than the fully converted and therefore impervious to simple logic, and demands of that high
value of democracy, it takes away nothing from the my arguments regarding the unfairness of ICANN being subject to US jurisdiction, and the urgent need to move it to international jurisdiction, which you are right, I have often made on various fora, and will
keep making. It is a political act. <br>
<br>
regards, parminder <br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Regards<br>
Sent from my LG G4<br>
Kindly excuse brevity and typos<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 19 Jun 2016 07:28, "parminder" <<a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net">parminder@itforchange.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Sunday 19 June 2016 11:31 AM, Jordan Carter wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I may have missed something, Parminder, but isn't it a plus rather than a negative for ICANN accountability that process errors can be appealed and the company held to account for them?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
Jordan<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">In may make ICANN accountable, but to a system that is unaccountable to the global public, and is only accountable to the US public (there could even be cases where these two could be in partial conflict) - that in sum is the jurisdiction
issue. ICANN accountability issue is different, though linked, bec it has to be accountable, but to the right system, which itself is accountable to the global public. Different 'layers' of accountability are implicated here, as people in IG space will like
to say! <br>
<br>
Here the issue is, a US court has no right to (exclusively) adjudicate the rights of the African people, bec African people had no part in making or legitimising the system that the US court is a part of. Dont you see what problem we will be facing if the US
court says that fairness of process or whatever demands that .africa goes to DCA. If you were an African, what would you feel?<br>
<br>
An ICANN under international law will be subject to only an international judicial process, which Africa is equally a part of, and gives legitimacy to.
<br>
<span style="color:#888888"><br>
parminder </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Jordan<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 19 June 2016 at 07:26, parminder <<a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net">parminder@itforchange.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Sunday 19 June 2016 04:13 AM, Paul Rosenzweig wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p>The Economist | A virtual turf war: The scramble for .africa <a href="http://www.economist.com/news/middle-east-and-africa/21700661-lawyers-california-are-denying-africans-their-own-domain-scramble?frsc=dg%7Cd">
http://www.economist.com/news/middle-east-and-africa/21700661-lawyers-california-are-denying-africans-their-own-domain-scramble?frsc=dg%7Cd</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
Not that this fact is being discovered now, but it still is the simplest and clearest proof that US jurisdiction over ICANN's policy processes and decisions is absolutely untenable. Either the US makes a special legal provision unilaterally foregoing judicial,
legislative and executive jurisdiction over ICANN policy functions, or the normal route of ICANN's incorporation under international law is taken, making ICANN an international organisation under international law, and protected from US jurisdiction under
a host country agreement. <br>
<span style="color:#888888"><br>
parminder <br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Paul Rosenzweig<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org" target="_blank">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
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_______________________________________________<br>
Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org" target="_blank">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a><br>
<a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Jordan Carter <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Wellington, New Zealand<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="tel:%2B64%2021%20442%20649" target="_blank">+64 21 442 649</a> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:jordan@jordancarter.org.nz" target="_blank">jordan@jordancarter.org.nz</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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_______________________________________________<br>
Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a><br>
<a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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