<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>For Profit?</div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id="AppleMailSignature">What Cheese Sandwich is this guy on?</div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id="AppleMailSignature">el<br><br>-- <div>Sent from Dr Lisse's iPad mini 4</div></div><div><br>On 19 Jun 2016, at 18:45, Phil Buckingham <<a href="mailto:phil@dotadvice.co.uk">phil@dotadvice.co.uk</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered medium)"><!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Phil,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I also wholeheartedly agree. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">However is there not a strong case for ICANN‘s new CEO to start the process of breaking up ICANN into two separate legal entities, with the creation of a new for profit corporation. It doesn’t necessarily have to be incorporated in California.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">This would replace the GDD - to properly manage the closure of the (imploding) Round 1 gTLD programme as soon as possible, more effectively manage the $Ms of revenues generated and received in the coming years, as well as $100M auction proceeds, from the new gTLD Registries and Registrars, that will at least go some way to paying for the huge costs ( already over budget) of the WS2 implementation and the inevitable WS3. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Phil <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"> <a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org">mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>James M. Bladel<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, June 19, 2016 4:54 PM<br><b>To:</b> Phil Corwin<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [CCWG-ACCT] The Economist | A virtual turf war: The scramble for .africa<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Phil - <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Well said, and I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Thanks—<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">J.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>> on behalf of Phil Corwin <<a href="mailto:psc@vlaw-dc.com">psc@vlaw-dc.com</a>><br><b>Date: </b>Sunday, June 19, 2016 at 10:47 <br><b>To: </b>parminder <<a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net">parminder@itforchange.net</a>>, Seun Ojedeji <<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>><br><b>Cc: </b>"<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a>><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [CCWG-ACCT] The Economist | A virtual turf war: The scramble for .africa<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Paraminder:</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">You keep advocating for ICANN to be transferred to “international jurisdiction”, but can you go beyond that slogan and articulate exactly what organizational form and subject to what enforcement authority you refer?</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I presume that you are not advocating that ICANN relocate its legal jurisdiction to that of another nation, as that would simply raise the same concerns that you have expressed in regard to the U.S. legal system (not U.S. Government control, as you incorrectly infer) within the context of a different nation-state.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">If you are advocating that ICANN become a UN-type IGO then such a result is directly contradictory to the conditions set by the NTIA for the transition – and if there is widespread support for such a bait-and-switch result we should all know it now before the transition occurs.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Making ICANN subject to international jurisdiction also raises the question of what adjudication forum would address relevant legal disputes, which in ICANN’s case are primarily of contract interpretation and enforcement. The International Criminal Court would not be relevant; and the International Court of Justice only permits nation-states to be parties before it.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">There is also the issue of recognition of ICANN’s proposed “international jurisdiction” status. Generally, in the instance of organizations created by multilateral treaty, each nation has the option of recognizing and participating in the arrangement – or not.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">My own views on this subject are quite clear – see <a href="http://www.circleid.com/posts/20160523_the_irritating_irresolution_of_icann_jurisdiction/">http://www.circleid.com/posts/20160523_the_irritating_irresolution_of_icann_jurisdiction/</a> :</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.25in"><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">For the sake of legal clarity and organizational stability, it is incumbent upon WS2 participants to resolve this matter as soon as feasible — and to come down decisively in favor of a permanent link between ICANN and U.S. jurisdiction. If this were a matter of first impression then impartial consideration of an alternative national jurisdiction might be in order. But it is a not a matter of first impression, and multiple factors weigh in favor of enshrining ICANN's permanent status as a California non-profit corporation in a Fundamental Bylaw:</span></i><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">?<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">ICANN has embodied California non-profit status since its founding in 1998</span></i><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">?<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">With the EC and PTI required to be California non-profits by revised Fundamental Bylaws, an inconsistent status for ICANN itself could raise confounding legal and policy issues for both accountability and control</span></i><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">?<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The accountability plan has been designed to be maximally effective in the context of California law</span></i><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">?<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The U.S. legal system is well regarded for its dedication to objective determinations under the rule of law</span></i><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">?<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Perhaps most importantly, the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution guarantees that the U.S. government cannot take actions that would coerce ICANN into using its root zone control to abridge free speech.</span></i><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">If you are going to advocate for ignoring all the points cited above and ICANN’s transfer to “international jurisdiction” then I would respectfully ask that you go beyond that phrase and enlighten us all as to exactly what form this would take, how it would be achieved, how it would ensure that ICANN would not become subject to governmental control, and in which venue contract and other legal disputes pertaining to ICANN would be resolved? You state, “There are hundreds of international organizations functioning under international law, and so can ICANN”, but can you go beyond that and provide examples of relevant examples for ICANN that are not UN agencies and thereby subject to multilateral political influence?</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Until you provide us with the “simple logic” of such further details I must regard your advocacy as merely rhetorical with no well-considered substance behind it, and thereby incapable of amassing consensus support within an ICANN community that has just labored two-plus years to create transition and accountability proposals that are firmly rooted in U.S. jurisdiction.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Sincerely,</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Philip </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal</span></b><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">Virtualaw LLC</span></b><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">1155 F Street, NW</span></b><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">Suite 1050</span></b><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">Washington, DC 20004</span></b><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">202-559-8597/Direct</span></b><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">202-559-8750/Fax</span></b><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">202-255-6172/Cell</span></b><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy"> </span></b><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">Twitter: @VlawDC</span></b><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">"Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey</span></i></b><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"> <a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org">mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>parminder<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, June 19, 2016 3:12 AM<br><b>To:</b> Seun Ojedeji<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [CCWG-ACCT] The Economist | A virtual turf war: The scramble for .africa</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">On Sunday 19 June 2016 12:11 PM, Seun Ojedeji wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><p><span lang="EN-US">Hello Parminder,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang="EN-US">As an African, I would tend to agree with your point and wish that your conclusion point was the case (as a reactive measure). However as you know, we have discussed this extensively in the past (on different fora) and we found that the means to the end of such is so complicated and the end itself would ultimately create a govt lead ICANN which i certainly don't want.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br>If ICANN functioning under California non profit law - made by government - and subject to US jurisdiction - also made of and by governments (and governments alone) - can continue to be seem and treated as a multistakeholder organisation, to your and others' satisfaction, there is simply no reason why ICANN cannot be and function similarly under international jurisdiction, created by international law.<br><br>Your preferring US law/ jurisdiction over international law/ jurisdiction is, simply and nothing more than, a statement of your preferring the US jurisdiction over international jurisdiction ( which, while you have a right to your choices, I consider democratically unfortunate). None is less complex that the other. There are hundreds of international organisations functioning under international law, and so can ICANN. And if ICANN has some special contexts and needs, that would be met by relevant innovations in international law, but not by a democratic regression to subjecting the world to the US law. Democracy is precious, and people have done much to achieve it. Please dont treat it lightly, citing technicalities against it. That is extremely unfortunate. Sorry for the analogy but it directly applies; every tyrant/ dictator is prone to argue that democracy is messy, and difficult and, as you say, complicated. But such an argument does not carry, does it.<br><br>To call an ICANN which is constituted under US law, and fully answerable to US jurisdiction (meaning US government, its all branches), as fully multistakeholder;<br><br>and, at the same time, an ICANN functioning exactly in the same manner, but now under international law and jurisdiction, as (to quote you) becoming a government let ICANN <br><br>is simply to make a misleading statement. <br><br>Although, the fallacy contained in it is as clear as daylight, among status quoists circles this statement or argument continues to be made and re-made. But, for other than the fully converted and therefore impervious to simple logic, and demands of that high value of democracy, it takes away nothing from the my arguments regarding the unfairness of ICANN being subject to US jurisdiction, and the urgent need to move it to international jurisdiction, which you are right, I have often made on various fora, and will keep making. It is a political act. <br><br>regards, parminder <br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang="EN-US">Regards<br>Sent from my LG G4<br>Kindly excuse brevity and typos<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">On 19 Jun 2016 07:28, "parminder" <<a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net">parminder@itforchange.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">On Sunday 19 June 2016 11:31 AM, Jordan Carter wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I may have missed something, Parminder, but isn't it a plus rather than a negative for ICANN accountability that process errors can be appealed and the company held to account for them?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-US"><br>Jordan<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">In may make ICANN accountable, but to a system that is unaccountable to the global public, and is only accountable to the US public (there could even be cases where these two could be in partial conflict) - that in sum is the jurisdiction issue. ICANN accountability issue is different, though linked, bec it has to be accountable, but to the right system, which itself is accountable to the global public. Different 'layers' of accountability are implicated here, as people in IG space will like to say! <br><br>Here the issue is, a US court has no right to (exclusively) adjudicate the rights of the African people, bec African people had no part in making or legitimising the system that the US court is a part of. Dont you see what problem we will be facing if the US court says that fairness of process or whatever demands that .africa goes to DCA. If you were an African, what would you feel?<br><br>An ICANN under international law will be subject to only an international judicial process, which Africa is equally a part of, and gives legitimacy to. <br></span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#888888"><br>parminder </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Jordan<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">On 19 June 2016 at 07:26, parminder <<a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net">parminder@itforchange.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">On Sunday 19 June 2016 04:13 AM, Paul Rosenzweig wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><p><span lang="EN-US">The Economist | A virtual turf war: The scramble for .africa <a href="http://www.economist.com/news/middle-east-and-africa/21700661-lawyers-california-are-denying-africans-their-own-domain-scramble?frsc=dg%7Cd">http://www.economist.com/news/middle-east-and-africa/21700661-lawyers-california-are-denying-africans-their-own-domain-scramble?frsc=dg%7Cd</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br>Not that this fact is being discovered now, but it still is the simplest and clearest proof that US jurisdiction over ICANN's policy processes and decisions is absolutely untenable. Either the US makes a special legal provision unilaterally foregoing judicial, legislative and executive jurisdiction over ICANN policy functions, or the normal route of ICANN's incorporation under international law is taken, making ICANN an international organisation under international law, and protected from US jurisdiction under a host country agreement. <br></span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#888888"><br>parminder <br><br><br></span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span lang="EN-US">Paul Rosenzweig<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span lang="EN-US">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang="EN-US">Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org" target="_blank">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span lang="EN-US"><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-US"><br>_______________________________________________<br>Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org" target="_blank">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a><br><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br><br clear="all"><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">-- <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Jordan Carter <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Wellington, New Zealand<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="tel:%2B64%2021%20442%20649" target="_blank">+64 21 442 649</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:jordan@jordancarter.org.nz" target="_blank">jordan@jordancarter.org.nz</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-US"><br>_______________________________________________<br>Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a><br><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span lang="EN-US"><hr size="1" width="100%" noshade="" style="color:#A0A0A0" align="center"></span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span lang="EN-US">No virus found in this message.<br>Checked by AVG - <a href="http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</a><br>Version: 2016.0.7497 / Virus Database: 4604/12441 - Release Date: 06/17/16<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a></span><br><span><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a></span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>