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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Sunday 26 June 2016 03:27 PM, Phil
Corwin wrote:<br>
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There is no international corporate law. Therefore there is no
means by which ICANN can be organized as a non-profit entity
under international law but for a treaty arrangement such as
that for the Red Cross. </div>
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Yes, it will be incorporated under special international law created
for that purpose.<br>
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background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">How long would that take,</div>
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<br>
First we have to just decide to do it (that is all to be done at
this stage - which can be done within weeks or a few months of
discussion), then let it take the needed time as long as everyone is
working in good faith... It can even be done in 6-12 months, a
simple basic text that incorporates existing ICANN functions and
processes. There is a clear incentive for those who wants things
changed vis a vis US jurisdiction to go through the process fast,
and for those preferring the status quo to keep the text short and
as far as possible making an exact replica of present ICANN at the
international level. Once we agree on these principles, things can
move really fast. In the interim, of course the status quo of US
jurisdiction remains, and so there is no loss.<br>
<br>
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background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> what would that cost,</div>
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what kind of costs?<br>
<br>
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background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> and what is the
justification?</div>
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<br>
This brings us to the square one of this discussion, while I thought
you/ we were moving forward. The simplest statement of the
justification is: a global Internet cannot be run by US law [no
legislation (or adjudication) without representation]. For
implications of this justification, you may try to answer the
questions that I just asked Nigel (and had earlier also asked you).<br>
<br>
parminder <br>
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Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal<br>
Virtualaw LLC<br>
1155 F Street, NW<br>
Suite 1050<br>
Washington, DC 20004<br>
202-559-8597/Direct<br>
202-559-8750/Fax<br>
202-255-6172/Cell<br>
<br>
Twitter: @VlawDC<br>
<br>
"Luck is the residue of design." -- Branch Rickey</div>
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<div id="x_from"><b>From:</b><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wolfgang.kleinwaechter@medienkomm.uni-halle.de">wolfgang.kleinwaechter@medienkomm.uni-halle.de</a></div>
<div id="x_sent"><b>Sent:</b>June 26, 2016 12:27 PM</div>
<div id="x_to"><b>To:</b><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net">parminder@itforchange.net</a>;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:asoto@ibero-americano.org">asoto@ibero-americano.org</a>;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com">paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com</a>;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a></div>
<div id="x_subject"><b>Subject:</b>Re: [CCWG-ACCT]
premature jurisdiction debates</div>
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<div class="PlainText">P:<br>
There is something called international law..... Like we are
an international community working on an international
issue, there is also international law.<br>
<br>
W:<br>
I am always perplexed that we have the same discussion again
and again. The subject of international law is the state,
represented by its government. Governments negotiate
treaties. The primary source of international law is the
Charter of the United Nations. The seven principles there -
including sovereign equality of states - are seen as jus
cogens. The rules for treaties are laid down in the the
Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties. Governments can
delegate some rights - via an international treaty - to an
intergovernmental organisation, as UNESCO, ITU and
others.Such organizations become a subject sui generis under
international law and can negotiate treaties with their host
countries. Governments can also create international courts
- as the International court of justice in The Hague or the
Rome Statute. But in case of a conflict, the conflicting
parties are governments, not private legal or natural
persons.
<br>
<br>
This is rather different from what we have with ICANN. ICANN
is a non-for profit private corporations which operates n
the public interest. In its Articles of Incorporation ICANN
makes clear that in operates within the framework of
international law. That means ICANN respect the national
sovereignty of states, does not interfere into internal
affairs of other countries etc. But ICANN is not a subject
under international law. Governments participate in ICANN in
an advisory role. The role is specified in the bylaws.
<br>
<br>
If Parminder proposes an intergovernmental organizations for
the governance of the Internet (or an intergovernmental
framework convention for the domain name system) he should
say so. Theoretically this is an option. Governments are
free to negotiate anything as long as they find negotiation
partners. It took 25 years to negotiate the 3rd Law of th
Sea Convention. It took more than 20 years to negotiate the
Rome Treaty. An the negotiations for a treaty on climate
change started in the early 1990s. At this stage I do not
see any intention of governments to enter into a new
intergovernmental codification conference to negotiate an
Internet treaty.
<br>
<br>
BTW, individuals can start a case against private
corporations if those corporations violate their rights they
have in the country where they live. The case Schrems vs.
Facebook is a good example. Facebook is incorporated in the
US but does business in Europe. The European Court of
Justice decided that Facebook has to respect the rights of
privacy of Mr. Schrems, a citizen of Austria.
<br>
<br>
Hope this helps to end this useless debate. <br>
<br>
Wolfgang<br>
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