<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Monday 27 June 2016 06:43 PM, Paul
Rosenzweig wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:021d01d1d075$b7dab5d0$27902170$@redbranchconsulting.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered
medium)">
<!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style><![endif]-->
<style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.msonormal0, li.msonormal0, div.msonormal0
{mso-style-name:msonormal;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
span.hoenzb
{mso-style-name:hoenzb;}
span.EmailStyle19
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I
would respectfully disagree Pedro – the question is not
about ICANN’s existing jurisdiction alone. It must be about
any alternative as well – and that alternative needs to be a
concrete proposed one (e.g. move ICANN to Turkey, or Egypt)
and not about some theoretical construct that has no basis
in realistic appraisals. If you want to have more than one
alternative I’m fine with that – but you can’t just ask the
question of “what are the problems we might encounter where
we are” without also asking “and will that change if we
change?”</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
I agree with you Paul. Full implications of both 'where we are' and
'what is proposed' should be considered at the same time.<br>
<br>
But still making a start with fully understanding and accepting the
implications of 'where we are' remains important. Let there be no
denial of those implications. Once we accept them, it is ok to say,
yes this may be a problem, but show me a better solution. If we
cannot refuse to bring out the implications of 'what may be
proposed', much less can we refuse to accept all implications of
'where we are'. The problem is that there is a huge amount of denial
wrt the issues with the current arrangement. I posed those two
questions that I did a few times now, and there are others. I am
happy to hear your professional lawyerly view on it, and also of our
appointment legal advisor - bringing out the full implications of
the scenarios that have been posted. Why cant we do that? <br>
<br>
Fine if one can show that the situations posed in my questions can
be dealt with without any actual 'interference' of US jurisdiction
in ICANN's global policy functions. <br>
<br>
I am even fine if people say, well, if the courts so decide, ICANN
will indeed have to change its policy decisions (or if US customs
insist on seizing a gTLD like 'rojadirecta, from my example, ICANN
will indeed have to comply) but then this situation is no worse than
what would obtain in any other proposed solution. Or, even if a
proposed solution solves this specific problem, it brings this and
this bigger problems, and the trade off is negative. <br>
<br>
That would be being fair to both sides. And a proper consideration
of an issue that we are now mandated to consider.<br>
<br>
parminder <br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:021d01d1d075$b7dab5d0$27902170$@redbranchconsulting.com"
type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Cheers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Paul<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Paul
Rosenzweig<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com"><span
style="color:#0563C1"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com">paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com</a></span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">O:
+1 (202) 547-0660<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">M:
+1 (202) 329-9650<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">VOIP:
+1 (202) 738-1739<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.redbranchconsulting.com/"><span
style="color:#0563C1"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.redbranchconsulting.com">www.redbranchconsulting.com</a></span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">My
PGP Key: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://redbranchconsulting.com/who-we-are/public-pgp-key/"><span
style="color:#0563C1">http://redbranchconsulting.com/who-we-are/public-pgp-key/</span></a>
<u><span style="color:#0563C1"><o:p></o:p></span></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org">mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Pedro Ivo Ferraz da Silva<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, June 26, 2016 8:42 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Guru Acharya <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gurcharya@gmail.com"><gurcharya@gmail.com></a>;
Accountability Cross Community
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org"><accountability-cross-community@icann.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [CCWG-ACCT] RES: premature jurisdiction
debates<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">Dear
Guru,</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">My
suggestion is that we tackle the issue of jurisdiction
from a perspective slightly different than the one you
presented below.</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">Since
in our report we have clearly indicated that our main
broad concern is about the "Influence that ICANN’s
existing jurisdiction may have on the actual operation
of policies and accountability mechanisms", we should
examine all the scenarios through which ICANN's
operations may be affected by the jurisdiction(s) it is
subject to (e.g. government sanctions, labour law,
governing law for contracts, etc) and evaluate to what
extent those "obligations" may exercise undue
interference in ICANN's global policy-based operations. </span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">This
initial assessment is key so that we can have a clear
idea of (i) all the different facets of jurisdiction and
(ii) which of those facets really matter when it comes
to enhancing ICANN's responsibility as an entity with a
global remit (which involves - to the extent possible
- not being subject to unilaterally imposed obligations
defined outside the global multistakeholder community). </span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">That
being said, I wouldn't assume from the start that any
subject is off the table. We just need to bear in mind
that we have a new accountability system set up and that
we need to check to what extent this "new ICANN" is able
to cope with the jurisdiction-related issues to be
identified in WS2. Then, we should look for possible
alternatives to improve this "new ICANN".</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">In
this exercise, it is fundamental not to anticipate any
result. </span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">Regards,</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">Pedro</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"
align="center"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">
<hr size="3" width="100%" align="center"></span></div>
<div id="divRpF394347">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">De:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>]
em nome de Guru Acharya [<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gurcharya@gmail.com">gurcharya@gmail.com</a>]<br>
<b>Enviado:</b> domingo, 26 de junho de 2016 8:15<br>
<b>Para:</b> Accountability Cross Community<br>
<b>Assunto:</b> Re: [CCWG-ACCT] premature
jurisdiction debates</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">The
following are my inferences from today's
lightening talks on jurisdiction: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">1)
There will clearly be a concerted effort to
incorporate a principle stating that "WS2 can
not undo WS1". Since WS1 is embedded in
California Law, any discussion on jurisdiction
of incorporation in WS2 will effectively be
foreclosed. Unfortunately, this ignores the
fact that when the bucket list for WS1 and WS2
was created, it was never implied that WS2 is
less important than WS1, or that in case of
conflict between WS1 and WS2, the decisions of
WS1 would prevail. The only distinction at
that time was that WS1 will help achieve WS2
after the transition. I believe any change in
that would violate to the conditions put forth
at that juncture.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">2)
Jurisdiction will be recognised as a
multi-layered issue not just limited to place
of incorporation. The following layers will
be discussed:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Layer
1: Jurisdiction of incorporation &
operations, including - tax system, human
resources, etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Layer
2: Jurisdiction of physical presence<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Layer
3: Jurisdiction about contractual
relationships: governing law for contracts
with registrars and registries and ability to
sue and be sued<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Layer
4: Jurisdiction to sue and be sued for action
& inaction of Staff, and for redress and
review of Board Decisions, IRP, and other
Accountability and Transparency issues,
including AoC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Layer
5: relation with the national jurisdictions
for particular domestic issues (ccTLD´s
managers, protected names either for
International Institutions or Country and
other geographic names, national security,
etc.), privacy, freedom of expression<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Interference
by non-US state actors will also be included
in the discussion with respect to Layers 3 to
5.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">The
chairs were categorical in their understanding
that Layer 1 on jurisdiction of incorporation
has already been decided in WS1 and any change
in it will upset WS1. Thus, in the upcoming
discussions, all layers will be discussed except
for Layer 1 which is the jurisdiction of
incorporation. This is ironical because the
entire political context for the IANA transition
is based on Layer 1 of jurisdiction.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">On
Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 3:46 PM, parminder <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net">parminder@itforchange.net</a></a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">On
Sunday 26 June 2016 03:27 PM, Phil Corwin
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div name="x_BB10">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="color:black">There is no
international corporate law. Therefore
there is no means by which ICANN can
be organized as a non-profit entity
under international law but for a
treaty arrangement such as that for
the Red Cross. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><br>
Yes, it will be incorporated under special
international law created for that purpose.<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div name="x_BB10">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="color:black">How long would
that take,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><br>
First we have to just decide to do it (that
is all to be done at this stage - which can
be done within weeks or a few months of
discussion), then let it take the needed
time as long as everyone is working in good
faith... It can even be done in 6-12 months,
a simple basic text that incorporates
existing ICANN functions and processes.
There is a clear incentive for those who
wants things changed vis a vis US
jurisdiction to go through the process fast,
and for those preferring the status quo to
keep the text short and as far as possible
making an exact replica of present ICANN at
the international level. Once we agree on
these principles, things can move really
fast. In the interim, of course the status
quo of US jurisdiction remains, and so there
is no loss.<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div name="x_BB10">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="color:black">what would that
cost,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><br>
what kind of costs?<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div name="x_BB10">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="color:black">and what is the
justification?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><br>
This brings us to the square one of this
discussion, while I thought you/ we were
moving forward. The simplest statement of
the justification is: a global Internet
cannot be run by US law [no legislation (or
adjudication) without representation]. For
implications of this justification, you may
try to answer the questions that I just
asked Nigel (and had earlier also asked
you).</span><span style="color:#888888"><br>
<br>
<span class="hoenzb">parminder </span></span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div name="x_BB10">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div name="x_BB10">
<div name="x_BB10">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="color:black">Philip S.
Corwin, Founding Principal<br>
Virtualaw LLC<br>
1155 F Street, NW<br>
Suite 1050<br>
Washington, DC 20004<br>
202-559-8597/Direct<br>
202-559-8750/Fax<br>
202-255-6172/Cell<br>
<br>
Twitter: @VlawDC<br>
<br>
"Luck is the residue of design."
-- Branch Rickey<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<table class="MsoNormalTable"
style="width:100.0%;background:white;border-spacing:0px;display:table"
width="100%" border="0"
cellpadding="0" cellspacing="3">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt
.75pt .75pt
initial;font-size:initial;text-align:initial">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:wolfgang.kleinwaechter@medienkomm.uni-halle.de"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wolfgang.kleinwaechter@medienkomm.uni-halle.de">wolfgang.kleinwaechter@medienkomm.uni-halle.de</a></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Sent:</b>June
26, 2016 12:27 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>To:</b><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net" target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net">parminder@itforchange.net</a></a>;
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:asoto@ibero-americano.org" target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:asoto@ibero-americano.org">asoto@ibero-americano.org</a></a>;
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com" target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com">paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com</a></a>;
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Subject:</b>Re:
[CCWG-ACCT] premature
jurisdiction debates<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">P:<br>
There is something called
international law..... Like we are
an international community working
on an international issue, there is
also international law.<br>
<br>
W:<br>
I am always perplexed that we have
the same discussion again and again.
The subject of international law is
the state, represented by its
government. Governments negotiate
treaties. The primary source of
international law is the Charter of
the United Nations. The seven
principles there - including
sovereign equality of states - are
seen as jus cogens. The rules for
treaties are laid down in the the
Vienna Convention on the Law of
Treaties. Governments can delegate
some rights - via an international
treaty - to an intergovernmental
organisation, as UNESCO, ITU and
others.Such organizations become a
subject sui generis under
international law and can negotiate
treaties with their host countries.
Governments can also create
international courts - as the
International court of justice in
The Hague or the Rome Statute. But
in case of a conflict, the
conflicting parties are governments,
not private legal or natural
persons. <br>
<br>
This is rather different from what
we have with ICANN. ICANN is a
non-for profit private corporations
which operates n the public
interest. In its Articles of
Incorporation ICANN makes clear that
in operates within the framework of
international law. That means ICANN
respect the national sovereignty of
states, does not interfere into
internal affairs of other countries
etc. But ICANN is not a subject
under international law. Governments
participate in ICANN in an advisory
role. The role is specified in the
bylaws. <br>
<br>
If Parminder proposes an
intergovernmental organizations for
the governance of the Internet (or
an intergovernmental framework
convention for the domain name
system) he should say so.
Theoretically this is an option.
Governments are free to negotiate
anything as long as they find
negotiation partners. It took 25
years to negotiate the 3rd Law of th
Sea Convention. It took more than 20
years to negotiate the Rome Treaty.
An the negotiations for a treaty on
climate change started in the early
1990s. At this stage I do not see
any intention of governments to
enter into a new intergovernmental
codification conference to negotiate
an Internet treaty. <br>
<br>
BTW, individuals can start a case
against private corporations if
those corporations violate their
rights they have in the country
where they live. The case Schrems
vs. Facebook is a good example.
Facebook is incorporated in the US
but does business in Europe. The
European Court of Justice decided
that Facebook has to respect the
rights of privacy of Mr. Schrems, a
citizen of Austria. <br>
<br>
Hope this helps to end this useless
debate. <br>
<br>
Wolfgang<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Accountability-Cross-Community
mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org"
target="_blank">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community"
target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="color:black"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org"
target="_blank">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community"
target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>