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+1 with enthusiasm</div>
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Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal<br>
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<div id="x_from"><b>From:</b>paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com</div>
<div id="x_sent"><b>Sent:</b>June 27, 2016 4:17 PM</div>
<div id="x_to"><b>To:</b>'Kleinwächter; wolfgang.kleinwaechter@medienkomm.uni-halle.de; parminder@itforchange.net; asoto@ibero-americano.org; accountability-cross-community@icann.org</div>
<div id="x_subject"><b>Subject:</b>Re: [CCWG-ACCT] premature jurisdiction debates</div>
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<div class="PlainText">+1 Wolfgang ... +1 indeed.<br>
<br>
Paul Rosenzweig<br>
paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com<br>
O: +1 (202) 547-0660<br>
M: +1 (202) 329-9650<br>
VOIP: +1 (202) 738-1739<br>
<a href="http://www.redbranchconsulting.com">www.redbranchconsulting.com</a><br>
My PGP Key: <a href="http://redbranchconsulting.com/who-we-are/public-pgp-key/">http://redbranchconsulting.com/who-we-are/public-pgp-key/</a>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang"<br>
[<a href="mailto:wolfgang.kleinwaechter@medienkomm.uni-halle.de">mailto:wolfgang.kleinwaechter@medienkomm.uni-halle.de</a>]
<br>
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2016 5:24 AM<br>
To: parminder <parminder@itforchange.net>; Alberto Soto<br>
<asoto@ibero-americano.org>; Paul Rosenzweig<br>
<paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com>;<br>
accountability-cross-community@icann.org<br>
Subject: AW: [CCWG-ACCT] premature jurisdiction debates<br>
<br>
P:<br>
There is something called international law..... Like we are an<br>
international community working on an international issue, there is also<br>
international law.<br>
<br>
W:<br>
I am always perplexed that we have the same discussion again and again. The<br>
subject of international law is the state, represented by its government.<br>
Governments negotiate treaties. The primary source of international law is<br>
the Charter of the United Nations. The seven principles there - including<br>
sovereign equality of states - are seen as jus cogens. The rules for<br>
treaties are laid down in the the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties.<br>
Governments can delegate some rights - via an international treaty - to an<br>
intergovernmental organisation, as UNESCO, ITU and others.Such organizations<br>
become a subject sui generis under international law and can negotiate<br>
treaties with their host countries. Governments can also create<br>
international courts - as the International court of justice in The Hague or<br>
the Rome Statute. But in case of a conflict, the conflicting parties are<br>
governments, not private legal or natural persons. <br>
<br>
This is rather different from what we have with ICANN. ICANN is a non-for<br>
profit private corporations which operates n the public interest. In its<br>
Articles of Incorporation ICANN makes clear that in operates within the<br>
framework of international law. That means ICANN respect the national<br>
sovereignty of states, does not interfere into internal affairs of other<br>
countries etc. But ICANN is not a subject under international law.<br>
Governments participate in ICANN in an advisory role. The role is specified<br>
in the bylaws. <br>
<br>
If Parminder proposes an intergovernmental organizations for the governance<br>
of the Internet (or an intergovernmental framework convention for the domain<br>
name system) he should say so. Theoretically this is an option. Governments<br>
are free to negotiate anything as long as they find negotiation partners. It<br>
took 25 years to negotiate the 3rd Law of th Sea Convention. It took more<br>
than 20 years to negotiate the Rome Treaty. An the negotiations for a treaty<br>
on climate change started in the early 1990s. At this stage I do not see any<br>
intention of governments to enter into a new intergovernmental codification<br>
conference to negotiate an Internet treaty. <br>
<br>
BTW, individuals can start a case against private corporations if those<br>
corporations violate their rights they have in the country where they live.<br>
The case Schrems vs. Facebook is a good example. Facebook is incorporated in<br>
the US but does business in Europe. The European Court of Justice decided<br>
that Facebook has to respect the rights of privacy of Mr. Schrems, a<br>
citizen of Austria. <br>
<br>
Hope this helps to end this useless debate. <br>
<br>
Wolfgang<br>
<br>
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