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<div>I would support Thomas’s suggested text. I suggest others review it as a possible acceptable compromise.</div>
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<div>-James</div>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>Thomas Rickert <<a href="mailto:thomas@rickert.net">thomas@rickert.net</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Wednesday 6 July 2016 at 23:02<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>Greg Shatan <<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>Edward Morris <<a href="mailto:egmorris1@toast.net">egmorris1@toast.net</a>>, James Gannon <<a href="mailto:james@cyberinvasion.net">james@cyberinvasion.net</a>>, Accountability Cross Community <<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [CCWG-ACCT] CCWG-Accountability - Draft Comment for Public Consultation on Articles of Incorporation (AOC)<br>
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I agree we should let Holly and Rosemary chime in with their view.
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<div class="">I would just note the following:
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<div class="">- We agree on the first point.</div>
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<div class="">- With respect to the second point - we are making reference to our report and ask the drafters to ensure that this is adequately covered. Therefore, there should not be the risk of going beyond the recommendations our group has made. In my view,
we could fix the concerns some of you raised by reframing the Issues paragraph as follows:</div>
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<![endif]--><!--StartFragment--><span lang="EN-US" class="">"Issue:
</span><span lang="EN-US" class="">Concerns were raised regarding use of the term “may”. Some felt this did not properly implement the recommendations of the CCWG-Accountability on this topic which include:"</span></div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">This tweak would remove reference to the word „shall“ and just request the lawyers to double-check whether our recommendations are covered. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">- On the third point: Greg put additional information on the record showing that the language is not ambiguous. This could be pointed to if need be. Thus, we could potentially drop that point. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I have attached an updated version. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Please note that our comment shall encourage the drafters to take a second look at the document based on our feedback. If concerns are raised or language is perceived to be unclear, that is something we can and should raise. I trust that the legal
teams have good reason for why they framed things as they did in the draft we now comment on. Still, the perception that some have justifies that these concerns are being brought up and reviewed. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">We will now let the discussion go on and file our comment a bit late. I am sure it will still be taken into account.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Thanks and kind regards,</div>
<div class="">Thomas</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""></div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">Am 06.07.2016 um 23:44 schrieb Greg Shatan <<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" class="">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>>:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I also agree with Edward that we benefit by letting the retained pros come on to the field and kick the ball around with the rest of us.</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 5:40 PM, Edward Morris <span dir="ltr" class="">
<<a href="mailto:egmorris1@toast.net" target="_blank" class="">egmorris1@toast.net</a>></span> wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto" class="">
<div class="">I agree with Greg for the exact reasons he has cited. Legal language has a structure and definitional quality all it's own and I would be very hesitant to submit this comment without having first run it by our counsel. My experience and education
causes me to agree with Greg's analysis and I would urge caution in approaching this matter in a less than thorough manner. This is a legal document very specific to California law and I would be uncomfortable submitting something that has not yet been vetted
by our legal team.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Best,</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Ed Morris</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<br class="">
Sent from my iPhone</div>
<div class="">
<div class="h5">
<div class=""><br class="">
On 6 Jul 2016, at 21:51, Greg Shatan <<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class="">
<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">It's unfortunate that we don't have time to run this by our counsel, as I would be interested in their views. Here are mine.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I would recommend against filing these comments.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">FIRST, I disagree with the second point raised. Substituting "shall" for "may" would incorrectly imply that there is a
<u class="">requirement</u> that a determination of the global public interest <u class="">
must</u> take place. We have not asked for such a requirement and we have not specified any such requirement, which would render this statement nebulous, ambiguous and undefined. As currently drafted,
<i class="">if</i> a determination of the global public interest takes place it will be done by the multistakeholder community using a bottom-up multistakeholder process, but there is (properly) no language
<u class="">requiring</u> that such a determination be made.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">If anyone believes that Final Recommendation 1, para 51
<u class="">requires</u> the initiation of a process to determine the global public interest, that should either be a part of Work Stream 2 or a huge implementation item for Work Stream 1. As far as I can see, it is neither -- which further proves that changing
"may" to "shall" goes beyond the recommendations of the CCWG.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">SECOND, I also disagree with the third point raised. "Organized" is commonly used in Articles of Incorporation (indeed, in some states, such as Massachusetts, a non-profit corporation files Articles
of Organization rather than Articles of Incorporation). As our counsel pointed out on the last call, the California official form for Articles of Incorporation uses the term "organized." (See attached) It is a best practice to stick closely to the official
language provided by the jurisdiction -- here it is "organized." This is demonstrated in model California Articles of Incorporation prepared by Public Counsel, a pro bono law firm, and available online (see attached or
<a href="http://www.publiccounsel.org/publications?id=0059" target="_blank" class="">
http://www.publiccounsel.org/publications?id=0059</a>). It would be far preferable if we were to accept the clarification that "organized" is what's used in this circumstance, rather than to recommend a change that is at best meaningless and at worst creates
the potential for confusion (since one always looks for meaning in any change, and confusion could fill the void created by the meaninglessness of this change). To paraphrase Shakespeare, I don't think the confusion is in the document, it is in ourselves
(or at least in some of us) -- and it would be better for us to adjust our understanding of the document, rather than to adjust the document to suit our misunderstanding.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Of course, the language of the CCWG comment is relatively undemanding -- we only ask that "counsel" (whose counsel? ICANN's?) or "the drafters" (why the difference?) review the language. We
do not justify our quasi-recommendations of changes, other than by saying that we are confused by the word "organized" and by demonstrating that we are confused about what is permissive and what is required.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Frankly, I'm far from sure that this comment is widely supported, other than by apathy or lack of time. I think it would be a mistake for either of these two recommendations (?) to be adopted,
and I hope that counsel/the drafters, upon further review, let the original drafting stand.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">The only thing I agree with is the trivial change from "further" to "future," which at least does not make matters worse. This is hardly worth a comment by itself.<br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">In sum, I reiterate that I would recommend against filing these comments.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Best regards,</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 3:49 PM, Greg Shatan <span dir="ltr" class="">
<<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I agree. This is a legal document, and we should have the benefit of counsel on this.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div class="">
<div class="">On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 3:36 PM, James Gannon <span dir="ltr" class="">
<<a href="mailto:james@cyberinvasion.net" target="_blank" class="">james@cyberinvasion.net</a>></span> wrote:<br class="">
</div>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; font-size: 14px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">While not able to certify anything, if there are issues that our counsel see I think its important that they are raised.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">-James</div>
<div class="">
<div class=""></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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<span style="font-weight:bold" class="">From: </span><<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank" class="">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>> on behalf of "Gregory, Holly" <<a href="mailto:holly.gregory@sidley.com" target="_blank" class="">holly.gregory@sidley.com</a>><br class="">
<span style="font-weight:bold" class="">Date: </span>Wednesday 6 July 2016 at 20:32<br class="">
<span style="font-weight:bold" class="">To: </span>Thomas Rickert <<a href="mailto:thomas@rickert.net" target="_blank" class="">thomas@rickert.net</a>>, Mathieu Weill <<a href="mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr" target="_blank" class="">mathieu.weill@afnic.fr</a>>,
"<a href="mailto:leonfelipe@sanchez.mx" target="_blank" class="">leonfelipe@sanchez.mx</a>" <<a href="mailto:leonfelipe@sanchez.mx" target="_blank" class="">leonfelipe@sanchez.mx</a>>, Accountability Cross Community <<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank" class="">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a>>,
Bernard Turcotte <<a href="mailto:turcotte.bernard@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">turcotte.bernard@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
<span style="font-weight:bold" class="">Subject: </span>Re: [CCWG-ACCT] CCWG-Accountability - Draft Comment for Public Consultation on Articles of Incorporation (AOC)<br class="">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="">Dear Co-Chairs and CCWG-Accountability Members and Participants, Please let us know if you want Sidley and/or Adler to comment on this before you
post it. We will not do so unless instructed to. Holly<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class="">HOLLY J. GREGORY</span></b><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class=""><br class="">
Partner and Co-Chair, Global Corporate Governance & Executive Compensation Practice<br class="">
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<b class="">SIDLEY AUSTIN LLP<br class="">
</b><a href="tel:%2B1%20212%20839%205853" value="+12128395853" target="_blank" class="">+1 212 839 5853</a><br class="">
<a href="mailto:holly.gregory@sidley.com" title="Click to send email to Gregory, Holly" target="_blank" class=""><span style="color:blue" class="">holly.gregory@sidley.com</span></a><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class=""> </span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class=""><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b class=""><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" class=""><a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank" class="">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank" class="">mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b class="">On Behalf Of </b>Bernard Turcotte<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 06, 2016 3:27 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b> Accountability Cross Community<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b> [CCWG-ACCT] CCWG-Accountability - Draft Comment for Public Consultation on Articles of Incorporation (AOC)<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">All,<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Please find attached the draft comment to the ICANN public consultation on the Articles of Incorporation from the leadership.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
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These comments are based on the questions raised during the CCWG meeting on the AOC and in consideration of Sam Eisner's response to those questions.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Please respond to the list ASAP if you have comments as this public consultation closes in a few hours.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Bernard Turcotte<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">ICANN Staff Support for the CCWG Co-Chairs.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
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