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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 13/07/2016 21:19, James Gannon
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:9882BF88-6736-446A-89F6-6BCD93D6195F@cyberinvasion.net"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div>
<div>
<div>I really don’t think its useful to reopen this debate
that we had at length at the start of the CCWG,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-Jg</div>
<div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:12pt;
text-align:left; color:black; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none;
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<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>>
on behalf of Sivasubramanian M <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:isolatedn@gmail.com">isolatedn@gmail.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Wednesday 13 July
2016 at 22:15<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>Greg Shatan <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>CCWG-Accountability
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re:
[CCWG-ACCT] Proposed Agenda CCWG ACCT Meeting - 12 July 2016 @
20:00 UTC<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(51,51,51)">Greg,</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(51,51,51)"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(51,51,51)">How
valid are your assumptions? What are the reasons for
this unwillingness to make use of ICANN Legal, who are
competent, have first hand knowledge and a complete
understanding of the legal nuances on matters concerning
ICANN, may I ask? Saves money on most matters requiring
legal advice, and should there be areas that require
specialized advice, we could seek external advice.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 12:28
AM, Greg Shatan <span dir="ltr">
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com"
target="_blank">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I
object, and I think many others objected, to the
idea that advice from inhouse (i.e., ICANN
legal) should be the "default." We retained
independent counsel to the CCWG for good reason
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(51,51,51);display:inline">s</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">and
those reasons are still applicable today. I
hope we don't need to rehash that.</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">We
need the continued ability and discretion to go
directly to CCWG's counsel. Requesting inhouse
to solicit an opinion from an external counsel
is not only "cumbersome," it's absolutely
antithetical to the relationship between CCWG
and its independent counsel.</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I
strongly believe that the "default" must be the
status quo, i.e., that the CCWG (through
reasonable processes) has the ability and
discretion to turn to its own counsel. Further,
I strongly believe that CCWG's independent
counsel must remain Sidley Austin and Adler
& Colvin. They have been up a tremendous
learning curve and worked with us every step of
the way. It would be folly to cast that aside.
It's worth noting that Sidley is a full-service
law firm with offices outside the US in Beijing,
Brussels, Geneva, Hong Kong, London, Munich,
Shanghai, Singapore, Sydney and Tokyo. I'm
confident that Sidley (and Adler) will (a) tell
us when they don't have the expertise to help
us, and (b) work with us on working methods to
make our use of the firms more cost-effective. </div>
<span class=""><font color="#888888">
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg</div>
</font></span></div>
<div class="">
<div class="h5">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 12, 2016
at 9:22 PM, Rudolph Daniel <span dir="ltr">
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rudi.daniel@gmail.com"
target="_blank">rudi.daniel@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:"comic sans
ms",sans-serif;font-size:large;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Based on comments on the call today,
IMO; A good body of knowledge was
accquired on the subject of legal
requests in wg1. WG2 legal resources
would be both inhouse and external,
from start, We should be much more
efficient this time around. Each sub
however will have their needs and
there may be requests applicable
across the subgroups and/or
specific to a subgroup.</div>
<div style="font-family:"comic sans
ms",sans-serif;font-size:large;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
So, that suggests close relationship
between budget control and the former
legal request team [reconfigured
and/or augmented] who would have to
coordinate requests across ws2 sub </div>
<div style="font-family:"comic sans
ms",sans-serif;font-size:large;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
groups as i see it.</div>
<div style="font-family:"comic sans
ms",sans-serif;font-size:large;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
What determines the initial choice
inhouse/external resources may be a
matter of consensus, but it may be
prudent to consider the process as
[default] inhouse with the flexible
and necessary option of external
sources by consensus [as the fog
clears so to speak]. I think it may be
cumbersome to request inhouse to
solicit an opinion from an external,
because there may arise an instance
where; on the strength of an opinion,
[inhouse or external] ; a wg2 may wish
to reframe and seek
alternative advise elswhere.</div>
<div style="font-family:"comic sans
ms",sans-serif;font-size:large;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
rd</div>
<div style="font-family:"comic sans
ms",sans-serif;font-size:large;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<div><font size="4"><span
style="font-family:"comic
sans
ms",sans-serif">Rudi
Daniel</span></font>
<div><font size="4"><span
style="font-family:"comic
sans
ms",sans-serif"><i><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.facebook.com/pages/Kingstown-Saint-Vincent-and-the-Grenadines/DanielCharles/153611257984774"
target="_blank">danielcharles
consulting</a></i></span></font></div>
<div><font color="#006600"><span
style="font-size:large"><b><br>
</b></span></font>
<div><span
style="font-size:large"><br>
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul
12, 2016 at 7:21 PM, Vinay Kesari
<span dir="ltr">
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vinay.kesari@gmail.com"
target="_blank">vinay.kesari@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Dear all,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I was unfortunately
unable to join the call as I
was on a flight at the time,
my apologies. I've just had
a chance to catch up on the
Adobe Connect recording, and
I'm happy to reconfirm my
willingness and availability
to serve as a rapporteur.
Also, I agree with the
thrust of Kavouss' comment
at 0:24:30, and affirm my
commitment to serve
impartially. I look forward
to working with Greg on the
jurisdiction subgroup.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Separately, on the issue
of allocation of legal
requests, I agree that we
need further discussion, and
endorse creating an Option 3
based on the points made and
the specific requirements of
the different WS2 subgroups.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Vinay</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On
12 July 2016 at 20:55,
Mathieu Weill <span
dir="ltr">
<<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr" target="_blank">mathieu.weill@afnic.fr</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px
0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px
solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="white"
background="cid:image002.gif@01D1DC62.6E6B3340"
link="#9D454F"
vlink="#814E95"
lang="FR">
<img
moz-do-not-send="true"
src="cid:image002.gif@01D1DC62.6E6B3340" style="width: 0px; min-height:
0px;" height="0"
width="0">
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Dear
Colleagues,
</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"
lang="EN-US">Attached
is a short set
of slides to
support our
discussion on
agenda item #4</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"
lang="EN-US">Talk
to you in a
few hours</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"
lang="EN-US">Mathieu</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<div>
<div
style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt
solid
rgb(181,196,223);padding:3pt
0cm 0cm">
<p
class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:windowtext">De :</span></b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:windowtext"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org"
target="_blank"> accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>
[mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org"
target="_blank">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>De la part
de</b> MSSI
Secretariat<br>
<b>Envoyé :</b>
lundi 11
juillet 2016
19:46<br>
<b>À :</b>
CCWG-Accountability<br>
<b>Objet :</b>
[CCWG-ACCT]
Proposed
Agenda CCWG
ACCT Meeting -
12 July 2016 @
20:00 UTC</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<span>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US">Good
day all,</span><span
style="color:windowtext" lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">In
preparation
for your call,
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://community.icann.org/x/FyOOAw" target="_blank">CCWG
Accountability
WS2 Meeting #2<span
style="text-decoration:none"> </span></a>–</span><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"
lang="EN-US"> Tuesday,
12 July @
20:00 – 22:00
UTC. Time
zone converter
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=CCWG+Accountability+Meeting&iso=20160712T20&p1=1440&ah=2"
target="_blank">
here</a></span><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US">
</span><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US">Proposed
Agenda:</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p
style="margin-left:54pt"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US"><span>1.<span
style="font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times
New
Roman"">
</span></span></span><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:black"
lang="EN-US"> Welcome, SOI</span><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p
style="margin-left:54pt"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US"><span>2.<span
style="font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times
New
Roman"">
</span></span></span><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:black"
lang="EN-US"> Articles of Incorporation : finalize submission </span><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p
style="margin-left:54pt"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US"><span>3.<span
style="font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times
New
Roman"">
</span></span></span><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:black"
lang="EN-US"> Appointment of rapporteurs for WS2 – next steps </span><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p
style="margin-left:54pt"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US"><span>4.<span
style="font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times
New
Roman"">
</span></span></span><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:black"
lang="EN-US"> Legal Cost Control Mechanism : initial discussion </span><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p
style="margin-left:54pt"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US"><span>5.<span
style="font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times
New
Roman"">
</span></span></span><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US"> AOB</span><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"
lang="EN-US"></span><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p
style="margin-left:54pt"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US"><span>6.<span
style="font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times
New
Roman"">
</span></span></span><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US"> Closing</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,38,38);background:yellow"
lang="EN-US">Adobe
Connect:
</span></b><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,38,38);background:yellow"
lang="EN-US"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://icann.adobeconnect.com/accountability/"
target="_blank">https://icann.adobeconnect.com/accountability/
</a></span><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,38,38)"
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,38,38)"
lang="EN-US">Thank
you!</span><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,38,38)"
lang="EN-US">With
kind regards,</span><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"MV
Boli";color:rgb(47,85,151)"
lang="EN-US">Brenda
Brewer
</span><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,38,38)"
lang="EN-US">MSSI
Projects &
Operations
Assistant</span><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,38,38)"
lang="EN-US">ICANN-Internet
Corporation
for Assigned
Names and
Numbers
</span><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(38,38,38)"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
</span></div>
</div>
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-- <br>
<div class="gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.facebook.com/sivasubramanian.muthusamy"
target="_blank">Sivasubramanian M</a></div>
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Matthew Shears
Global Internet Policy and Human Rights
Center for Democracy & Technology (CDT)
+ 44 771 2472987</pre>
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