<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Rudi,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Just so I understand your point clearly, when you refer to "in-house counsel," who are your referring to?</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Thanks!</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 6:16 PM, Rudolph Daniel <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rudi.daniel@gmail.com" target="_blank">rudi.daniel@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><p dir="ltr">I see Greg's points clearly. And the working methodology of ICANN legal as a default, is not the same as 'advice from in-house as default'..that would clearly be a disaster.<br>
Greg's alternative definition of default reads as the ability to appoint and use its own council as and when deemed necessary, well I take as a given and a necessity.<br>
And I agree, it would be throwing the baby out with the bath water to even suggest a change of counsel :) <br>
But let's not wish to be dismissive of 'in house' counsel, because of some rigorous belief that (Greg's) default drives the process. We are on the same page. We drive the process.<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
rd<br><br></font></span></p><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">
<p dir="ltr"> </p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Jul 13, 2016 2:58 PM, "Greg Shatan" <<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I object, and I think many others objected, to the idea that advice from inhouse (i.e., ICANN legal) should be the "default." We retained independent counsel to the CCWG for good reasons, and those reasons are still applicable today. I hope we don't need to rehash that.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">We need the continued ability and discretion to go directly to CCWG's counsel. Requesting inhouse to solicit an opinion from an external counsel is not only "cumbersome," it's absolutely antithetical to the relationship between CCWG and its independent counsel.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I strongly believe that the "default" must be the status quo, i.e., that the CCWG (through reasonable processes) has the ability and discretion to turn to its own counsel. Further, I strongly believe that CCWG's independent counsel must remain Sidley Austin and Adler & Colvin. They have been up a tremendous learning curve and worked with us every step of the way. It would be folly to cast that aside. It's worth noting that Sidley is a full-service law firm with offices outside the US in Beijing, Brussels, Geneva, Hong Kong, London, Munich, Shanghai, Singapore, Sydney and Tokyo. I'm confident that Sidley (and Adler) will (a) tell us when they don't have the expertise to help us, and (b) work with us on working methods to make our use of the firms more cost-effective. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 9:22 PM, Rudolph Daniel <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rudi.daniel@gmail.com" target="_blank">rudi.daniel@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:'comic sans ms',sans-serif;font-size:large;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Based on comments on the call today, IMO; A good body of knowledge was accquired on the subject of legal requests in wg1. WG2 legal resources would be both inhouse and external, from start, We should be much more efficient this time around. Each sub however will have their needs and there may be requests applicable across the subgroups and/or specific to a subgroup.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:'comic sans ms',sans-serif;font-size:large;color:rgb(0,0,0)">So, that suggests close relationship between budget control and the former legal request team [reconfigured and/or augmented] who would have to coordinate requests across ws2 sub </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:'comic sans ms',sans-serif;font-size:large;color:rgb(0,0,0)">groups as i see it.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:'comic sans ms',sans-serif;font-size:large;color:rgb(0,0,0)">What determines the initial choice inhouse/external resources may be a matter of consensus, but it may be prudent to consider the process as [default] inhouse with the flexible and necessary option of external sources by consensus [as the fog clears so to speak]. I think it may be cumbersome to request inhouse to solicit an opinion from an external, because there may arise an instance where; on the strength of an opinion, [inhouse or external] ; a wg2 may wish to reframe and seek alternative advise elswhere.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:'comic sans ms',sans-serif;font-size:large;color:rgb(0,0,0)">rd</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:'comic sans ms',sans-serif;font-size:large;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><br><div><font size="4"><span style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif">Rudi Daniel</span></font><div><font size="4"><span style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif"><i><a href="http://www.facebook.com/pages/Kingstown-Saint-Vincent-and-the-Grenadines/DanielCharles/153611257984774" target="_blank">danielcharles consulting</a></i></span></font></div><div><font color="#006600"><span style="font-size:large"><b><br></b></span></font><div><span style="font-size:large"><br></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 7:21 PM, Vinay Kesari <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:vinay.kesari@gmail.com" target="_blank">vinay.kesari@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Dear all,<div><br></div><div>I was unfortunately unable to join the call as I was on a flight at the time, my apologies. I've just had a chance to catch up on the Adobe Connect recording, and I'm happy to reconfirm my willingness and availability to serve as a rapporteur. Also, I agree with the thrust of Kavouss' comment at 0:24:30, and affirm my commitment to serve impartially. I look forward to working with Greg on the jurisdiction subgroup.</div><div><br></div><div>Separately, on the issue of allocation of legal requests, I agree that we need further discussion, and endorse creating an Option 3 based on the points made and the specific requirements of the different WS2 subgroups.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Vinay</div><div><br></div></div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 12 July 2016 at 20:55, Mathieu Weill <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr" target="_blank">mathieu.weill@afnic.fr</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="white" background="cid:image002.gif@01D1DC62.6E6B3340" lang="FR" link="#9D454F" vlink="#814E95"><img src="cid:image002.gif@01D1DC62.6E6B3340" width="0" height="0" style="width:0;min-height:0"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Dear Colleagues, <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Attached is a short set of slides to support our discussion on agenda item #4<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Talk to you in a few hours<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Mathieu<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">De :</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"> <a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>] <b>De la part de</b> MSSI Secretariat<br><b>Envoyé :</b> lundi 11 juillet 2016 19:46<br><b>À :</b> CCWG-Accountability<br><b>Objet :</b> [CCWG-ACCT] Proposed Agenda CCWG ACCT Meeting - 12 July 2016 @ 20:00 UTC<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><span><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext">Good day all,</span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:windowtext"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">In preparation for your call, <a href="https://community.icann.org/x/FyOOAw" target="_blank">CCWG Accountability WS2 Meeting #2<span style="text-decoration:none"> </span></a>–</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> Tuesday, 12 July @ 20:00 – 22:00 UTC. Time zone converter <a href="http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=CCWG+Accountability+Meeting&iso=20160712T20&p1=1440&ah=2" target="_blank">here</a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext">Proposed Agenda:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p style="margin-left:54.0pt"><u></u><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span>1.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><u></u><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> Welcome, SOI</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u><u></u></span></p><p style="margin-left:54.0pt"><u></u><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span>2.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><u></u><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> Articles of Incorporation : finalize submission </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u><u></u></span></p><p style="margin-left:54.0pt"><u></u><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span>3.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><u></u><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> Appointment of rapporteurs for WS2 – next steps </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u><u></u></span></p><p style="margin-left:54.0pt"><u></u><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><span>4.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><u></u><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> Legal Cost Control Mechanism : initial discussion </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u><u></u></span></p><p style="margin-left:54.0pt"><u></u><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext"><span>5.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><u></u><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext"> AOB</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p style="margin-left:54.0pt"><u></u><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext"><span>6.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><u></u><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext"> Closing<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#262626;background:yellow">Adobe Connect: </span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#262626;background:yellow"><a href="https://icann.adobeconnect.com/accountability/" target="_blank">https://icann.adobeconnect.com/accountability/ </a></span><span lang="EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#262626"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#262626">Thank you!</span><span lang="EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#262626">With kind regards,</span><span lang="EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MV Boli";color:#2f5597">Brenda Brewer </span><span lang="EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#262626">MSSI Projects & Operations Assistant</span><span lang="EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#262626">ICANN-<b> </b>Internet Corporation for 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