<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"><base href="x-msg://103/"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Seriously, Milton, the issue would have been the jurisdiction and the precedent.<div><br></div><div>CW</div><div><br><div><div>On 04 Aug 2016, at 20:15, "Mueller, Milton L" <<a href="mailto:milton@gatech.edu">milton@gatech.edu</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">As some of you know we’ve been doing some serious research on this topic and here is our take on the court decision:<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><a href="http://www.internetgovernance.org/2016/08/04/plaintiffs-cant-seize-ir-court-rules/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.internetgovernance.org/2016/08/04/plaintiffs-cant-seize-ir-court-rules/</a><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></div><div style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-width: 1.5pt; border-left-color: blue; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt; "><div><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: 3pt 0in 0in; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[mailto:accountability-<a href="mailto:cross-community-bounces@icann.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Phil Corwin<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, August 3, 2016 5:46 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>David Post <<a href="mailto:david.g.post@gmail.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">david.g.post@gmail.com</a>><br><b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>'CCWG-Accountability' <<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Weinstein v. Iran<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Paul:<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Greg Shatan raised the same quibble in a comment posted at the website, and I replied as follows—<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(242, 242, 242); ">Greg:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; "><br><span style="background-color: rgb(242, 242, 242); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; ">Thanks for the positive review of a hastily composed article. You are correct that the court expressed an assumption that a ccTLD constituted an attachable property interest, but did not decide that it was. While that assumption might be cited in a future case involving TLD matters it certainly has little to no weight. Further, courts might well decide that a nation's interest in its ccTLD, which is independent of any contractual relationship with ICANN, differentiates ccTLDs from gTLDs, which are dependent on being awarded such a contract by ICANN and can be lost if the registry operator commits a material breach of the registry agreement. Finally, whether or not ccTLDs or gTLDs constitute some type of property interest is a separate question from whether second level domains constitute a form of property.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br><span style="background-color: rgb(242, 242, 242); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; ">So yes, it was a very interesting outcome but in no way determinative on the TLD as property issue.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br><span style="background-color: rgb(242, 242, 242); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; ">Best, Philip<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(242, 242, 242); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">You are correct that the Court took no position one way or another on whether a TLD constitutes property, and leaves that issue for another case at a later date.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Very best, Philip<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: navy; ">Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: navy; ">Virtualaw LLC</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: navy; ">1155 F Street, NW</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: navy; ">Suite 1050</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: navy; ">Washington, DC 20004</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: navy; ">202-559-8597/Direct</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: navy; ">202-559-8750/Fax</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: navy; ">202-255-6172/Cell</span><span style="color: navy; "><o:p></o:p></span></b></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: navy; "> </span></b></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: navy; ">Twitter: @VlawDC</span></b><span style=""><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "> <o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><i><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: navy; ">"Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey</span></i></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></div><div><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); padding: 3pt 0in 0in; "><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>David Post [<a href="mailto:david.g.post@gmail.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">mailto:david.g.post@gmail.com</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, August 03, 2016 5:37 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Phil Corwin<br><b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Paul Rosenzweig; 'CCWG-Accountability'<br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Weinstein v. Iran<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">At 09:37 AM 8/3/2016, Phil Corwin wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">Content-Language: en-US<br>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;<br> boundary="_000_8E84A14FB84B8141B0E4713BAFF5B84E21188D2AExchangesierrac_"<br><br>FYI, yesterday I published a short article on the decision which can be found at<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.circleid.com/posts/20160802_court_of_appeals_avoids_doomsday_effect_in_iran_cctld_decision/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.circleid.com/posts/20160802_court_of_appeals_avoids_doomsday_effect_in_iran_cctld_decision/</a><o:p></o:p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><br><br>One small-ish quibble: you write:<br><br>"In reaching its decision, the Court<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i>opined<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></i>(but did not decide) that a top level domain constitutes an attachable property interest."<br><br>Not sure that's strictly correct. I think "opined" implies that the court expressed an opinion about the matter (without actually deciding it). But I don't think it did express an opinion one way or the other; it simply said that it would "assume" that the ccTLDs constitute property, without really considering the matter, because it would have no impact on the outcome. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>I know it's a nit ... but the question of whether TLDs are "property" is sure to come up again, and I don't think this opinion is any support at all - even weak support - for the notion that they are.<br>David<br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">In it I state:<br>In my view, this result avoids the possibility of a major erosion of confidence and participation in ICANN by ccTLD operators by making clear that a respected Court of Appeals in the U.S. possesses adequate technical understanding of the DNS to avoid a legal decision that could lead to technical and political instability many nations would not wish to continue in a DNS coordinated by a U.S. non-profit corporation if it could be ordered by a U.S. court to transfer control of any nation's ccTLD. This decision will also hopefully tamp down calls by some parties for ICANN's place of incorporation to be moved outside of the U.S. by demonstrating that ICANN's jurisdiction does not create a threat to other nation's ccTLDs. Remaining jurisdiction issues will be addressed in work stream 2 of ICANN's ongoing accountability process.<br> <br>Best regards to all<br> <br><b>Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal<br>Virtualaw LLC<br>1155 F Street, NW<br>Suite 1050<br>Washington, DC 20004<br>202-559-8597/Direct<br>202-559-8750/Fax<br>202-255-6172/Cell<br> <br>Twitter: @VlawDC<br></b> <br><b><i>"Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey<br></i></b> <br><b>From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Paul Rosenzweig<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, August 03, 2016 9:28 AM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>'CCWG-Accountability'<br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[CCWG-ACCT] Weinstein v. Iran<br> <br>For those following along in the effort to attach the .ir (and other) ccTLDs, the appellate court issued an opinion yesterday affirming the decision of the court below rejecting the effort to attach the domain (albeit on different grounds). Here is a link to the opinion:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://www.cadc.uscourts.gov/internet/opinions.nsf/D35ACE5F0E9673C085258003005094AE/$file/14-7193.pdf" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">https://www.cadc.uscourts.gov/internet/opinions.nsf/D35ACE5F0E9673C085258003005094AE/$file/14-7193.pdf</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br> <br>Paul<br> <br>Paul Rosenzweig<br>509 C St. NE<br>Washington, DC 20002<br><a href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com</a><br>O: +1 (202) 547-0660<br>M: +1 (202) 329-9650<br>VOIP: +1 (202) 738-1739<br><a href="http://www.redbranchconsulting.com/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">www.redbranchconsulting.com</a><br><a href="http://www.paulrosenzweigesq.com/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">www.paulrosenzweigesq.com</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>My PGP Key:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://redbranchconsulting.com/who-we-are/public-pgp-key/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">http://redbranchconsulting.com/who-we-are/public-pgp-key/</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br> <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: center; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">No virus found in this message.<br>Checked by AVG -<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.avg.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">www.avg.com</a><br>Version: 2016.0.7690 / Virus Database: 4627/12704 - Release Date: 07/29/16<br>_______________________________________________<br>Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a><br><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><br>*******************************<br><span style="font-size: 10pt; ">David G. Post<br>Volokh Conspiracy Blog<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/people/david-post" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.washingtonpost.com/people/david-post</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>Book (ISO Jefferson's Moose) <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://tinyurl.com/c327w2n%A0%A0%A0%A0" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">http://tinyurl.com/c327w2n <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></a><br>Music<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://soundcloud.com/davidpost-1/sets" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">https://soundcloud.com/davidpost-1/sets<br></a>Publications & Misc.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.ssrn.com/author=537%A0%A0" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.ssrn.com/author=537 <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></a><a href="http://www.davidpost.com/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.davidpost.com</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br></span>*******************************<o:p></o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: center; "><hr size="1" width="100%" noshade="" align="center" style="color: rgb(160, 160, 160); "></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">No virus found in this message.<br>Checked by AVG -<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.avg.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">www.avg.com</a><br>Version: 2016.0.7690 / Virus Database: 4627/12704 - Release Date: 07/29/16<o:p></o:p></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a><br><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>