<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Whether or not ICANN is a "public governance" body is largely irrelevant to the issue of ICANN's transparency obligations. ICANN's transparency obligations are an integral part of its method of operation as a corporation and a community. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Yet there are times when ICANN falls short on transparency. As a general matter, this concern is significant enough that we have a Transparency Subgroup for WS2 (which is where this discussion should continue in earnest). </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">The specific case of transparency (or lack thereof) on expenditures (and particularly lobbying, "light lobbying," and "non-lobbying lobbying" related expenditures) is a significant example of those concerns. I agree that a claim about following ordinary commercial practice does not resolve the issue. But there is no need to attempt to recast ICANN as a "public governance" body -- we need look no further than ICANN's internal "governance" concepts. To say they are atypical or unique is not a claim to "Internet exceptionalism" (not something I'd heard before this thread, but whatever) -- it is merely to acknowledge that ICANN is sufficiently different from "ordinary practices" that ordinary practices shouldn't apply. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">More specifically, ICANN's contracts with vendors need to build in levels of transparency that exceed ordinary practices, because ICANN's transparency obligations exceed ordinary transparency obligations. One need look no further than the method by which counsel to the CCWG (Sidley and Adler firms) work with the CCWG. Ordinarily, attorney-client privilege is maintained by keeping communications between attorney and client confidential -- this applies to meetings and attorney advice. Instead, consultations with counsel and counsel's advice are both done in an open and transparent fashion, on recorded and transcribed calls and in documents that are publicly posted.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Transparency regarding lobbying and other vendors and service providers should be handled in a similar fashion. To the extent it's not (and it's not...), it's fair to cry "foul" and to demand improvement.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">This can all be done in the context of ICANN as it is.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">For the record, I disagree with the attempt to characterize ICANN as a "public governance" body, for reasons substantially the same as those already expressed. In the interests of bandwidth (mine and yours) and avoiding rehashing, I have added my thoughts to the matter. In any event, for the reasons stated above, it is irrelevant to the transparency question to which this thread is devoted.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg </div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 9:43 AM, parminder <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net" target="_blank">parminder@itforchange.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<p><font face="Verdana">To these important posers I may add, is
ICANN considering making it clear to the vendors at the contracting
stage itself that it has strong transparency obligations and
would be bound by them (as governments typically do, which is
why this discussion went into whether ICANN's functions are of a
'public governance' nature). parminder</font><br>
</p><div><div class="h5">
<br>
<div>On Monday 15 August 2016 08:38 PM,
Schaefer, Brett wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Kavouss,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Thank
you for re-raising this issue, which appears to have been
lost.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Xavier,
I also asked for additional clarifications that, I think,
need to be answered to inform he work of the Transparency
Working Group in WS2. Specifically, in your response, you
said that “ICANN enters into confidentiality obligations as
a result of bilateral negotiations with vendors” and that
they prevent ICANN from publicly disclosing further details
than those provided in your e-mail. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li style="color:#1f497d"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Would
this confidentiality obligation prevent disclosure through
the DIDP process?<u></u><u></u></span></li>
</ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li style="color:#1f497d"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Would
this confidentiality obligation prevent individual
Directors from obtaining this information through their
Right of Inspection?<u></u><u></u></span></li>
</ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li style="color:#1f497d"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Would
this confidentiality obligation prevent an individual
Decisional Participant from obtaining this information if
they requested it under their Right of Inspection of
ICANN accounting books and records pursuant to the
provisions of Section 6333 of the CCC?<u></u><u></u></span></li>
</ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li style="color:#1f497d"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Would
this confidentiality obligation prevent the Empowered
Community from obtaining the information through its right
to launch a third-party, independent investigation if
three Decisional Participants determine that there is a
credible allegation that ICANN has committed fraud or that
there has been a gross mismanagement of ICANN’s resources?
<u></u><u></u></span></li>
</ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Finally,
I did not see where you clarified whether ICANN engaged
vendors to perform similar tasks – “lobbying” or
educational/engagement – that may not have been captured by
the Congressional database, such as at the state level in
the U.S. (particularly California), the U.S. Executive
Branch, or in non-US countries. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Best,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Brett
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-<wbr>community-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">mailto:accountability-cross-<wbr>community-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kavouss Arasteh<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 15, 2016 10:36 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Xavier J. Calvez<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-<wbr>community@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CCWG-ACCT] [community-finance] IANA
Stewardship Transition - Project Expenses - FY16 Q3 update<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dear Xavier <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I have sent you the following question
to which I have not received any reply<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Perhaps you have been very busy and
overlooked my questions<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I still awaiting for clarifications<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Regards<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">KAVOUSS <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Copy of questions raised many weeks ago<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dear Xavier<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thank you for all info.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Pls clarify the following<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">1.What is prfessional advice :;this
advice is given to whom ,on what subject and why is needed<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">2. what is lobbing here. who lobbies
for whom and on what and the need for such lobbies<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">3 Who checks and confirm the legal
costs by three legal entities, who decide that there was a
need for such legal advice and who checks and control ther
tme spent..Many of these advice were repeatation of
previous adfvices and just cut and p[aste from one advice
to others .Please review all advices given from the
begining of 2015 till now<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">We neeed all these detailed info .<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Regards<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Kavouss<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">2016-08-15 16:25 GMT+02:00 avri doria
<<a href="mailto:avri@apc.org" target="_blank">avri@apc.org</a>>:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
On 15-Aug-16 06:43, parminder wrote:<br>
> I just said that an Antigua based betting company
will be ill-advised<br>
> to try to take up a closed gTLD in its name and
conduct its business<br>
> under it, because it is liable to be seized whenever
US authorities<br>
> want to do so (by their jurisdiction control over
ICANN) . Same is<br>
> true of a drug company, say from India, planning
global e-com trade of<br>
> generic drugs. It will also be ill-advised to risk a
closed gTLD in<br>
> its name to do such global business, for the same
reason.<br>
<br>
I thought that this has to do with the jurisdiction of the
registry and<br>
the rregistrar itself. And while it may cause concern
because there are<br>
not as many registries and registrars in non US
jurisdictions, there are<br>
some and could be more in time. It may also mean that
greater efforts<br>
should be taken to inform people of the jurisdiction their
registration<br>
is under and whose laws they are subject to, but I do not
see how the<br>
location of ICANN main office or place of incorproation
affects this issue.<br>
<br>
In any case aren't the issues relatiing to the
jurisdiction of<br>
registries and registrars among the ones being discussed
in the Juris<br>
sub group?<br>
<br>
But the conversation has been quite far ranging so could
well be missing<br>
the point of the disagreement.<br>
<br>
avri<br>
<br>
<br>
---<br>
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus
software.<br>
<a href="https://www.avast.com/antivirus" target="_blank">https://www.avast.com/<wbr>antivirus</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<hr align="left" color="#58595b" width="200">
<span style="font-size:x-small;color:#004b8d;font-weight:bold">Brett</span><span style="font-size:x-small;color:#004b8d;font-weight:bold"></span>
<span style="font-size:x-small;color:#004b8d;font-weight:bold">Schaefer</span><span style="font-size:x-small;color:#58595b;font-weight:normal;font-style:italic"><br>
Jay Kingham Senior Research Fellow in International Regulatory
Affairs</span><span style="font-size:x-small;color:#58595b;font-weight:normal;font-style:italic"></span><span style="font-size:x-small;color:#58595b;font-weight:normal;font-style:italic"><br>
Margaret Thatcher Center for Freedom Davis Institute for
National Security and Foreign Policy</span><br>
<font color="#58595b" size="2">The Heritage Foundation<br>
214 Massachusetts Avenue, NE<br>
Washington, DC 20002</font><span style="font-size:x-small;color:#58595b"><br>
<a href="tel:202-608-6097" value="+12026086097" target="_blank">202-608-6097</a></span><br>
<font color="#004b8d" size="2"><a style="COLOR:#004b8d;TEXT-DECORATION:none" href="http://heritage.org/" target="_blank">heritage.org</a><br>
<span style="font-size:x-small"></span><span style="font-size:x-small"></span>
</font>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org" target="_blank">Accountability-Cross-<wbr>Community@icann.org</a><br>
<a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/accountability-cross-<wbr>community</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<br>
<pre>______________________________<wbr>_________________
Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list
<a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org" target="_blank">Accountability-Cross-<wbr>Community@icann.org</a>
<a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/accountability-cross-<wbr>community</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div></div></div>
<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org">Accountability-Cross-<wbr>Community@icann.org</a><br>
<a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/accountability-cross-<wbr>community</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>