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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#1F497D'>+1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#1F497D'>Best regards, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#1F497D'>John Laprise, Ph.D.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#1F497D'>Consulting Scholar<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/jplaprise/"><span style='color:#0563C1'>http://www.linkedin.com/in/jplaprise/</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org [mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Greg Shatan<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 16, 2016 10:15 AM<br><b>To:</b> parminder <parminder@itforchange.net><br><b>Cc:</b> accountability-cross-community@icann.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [CCWG-ACCT] [community-finance] IANA Stewardship Transition - Project Expenses - FY16 Q3 update<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Whether or not ICANN is a "public governance" body is largely irrelevant to the issue of ICANN's transparency obligations. ICANN's transparency obligations are an integral part of its method of operation as a corporation and a community. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Yet there are times when ICANN falls short on transparency. As a general matter, this concern is significant enough that we have a Transparency Subgroup for WS2 (which is where this discussion should continue in earnest). <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>The specific case of transparency (or lack thereof) on expenditures (and particularly lobbying, "light lobbying," and "non-lobbying lobbying" related expenditures) is a significant example of those concerns. I agree that a claim about following ordinary commercial practice does not resolve the issue. But there is no need to attempt to recast ICANN as a "public governance" body -- we need look no further than ICANN's internal "governance" concepts. To say they are atypical or unique is not a claim to "Internet exceptionalism" (not something I'd heard before this thread, but whatever) -- it is merely to acknowledge that ICANN is sufficiently different from "ordinary practices" that ordinary practices shouldn't apply. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>More specifically, ICANN's contracts with vendors need to build in levels of transparency that exceed ordinary practices, because ICANN's transparency obligations exceed ordinary transparency obligations. One need look no further than the method by which counsel to the CCWG (Sidley and Adler firms) work with the CCWG. Ordinarily, attorney-client privilege is maintained by keeping communications between attorney and client confidential -- this applies to meetings and attorney advice. Instead, consultations with counsel and counsel's advice are both done in an open and transparent fashion, on recorded and transcribed calls and in documents that are publicly posted.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Transparency regarding lobbying and other vendors and service providers should be handled in a similar fashion. To the extent it's not (and it's not...), it's fair to cry "foul" and to demand improvement.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>This can all be done in the context of ICANN as it is.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>For the record, I disagree with the attempt to characterize ICANN as a "public governance" body, for reasons substantially the same as those already expressed. In the interests of bandwidth (mine and yours) and avoiding rehashing, I have added my thoughts to the matter. In any event, for the reasons stated above, it is irrelevant to the transparency question to which this thread is devoted.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Greg <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 9:43 AM, parminder <<a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net" target="_blank">parminder@itforchange.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><p><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>To these important posers I may add, is ICANN considering making it clear to the vendors at the contracting stage itself that it has strong transparency obligations and would be bound by them (as governments typically do, which is why this discussion went into whether ICANN's functions are of a 'public governance' nature). parminder</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Monday 15 August 2016 08:38 PM, Schaefer, Brett wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Kavouss,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Thank you for re-raising this issue, which appears to have been lost. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Xavier, I also asked for additional clarifications that, I think, need to be answered to inform he work of the Transparency Working Group in WS2. Specifically, in your response, you said that “ICANN enters into confidentiality obligations as a result of bilateral negotiations with vendors” and that they prevent ICANN from publicly disclosing further details than those provided in your e-mail. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><ul type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='color:#1F497D;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Would this confidentiality obligation prevent disclosure through the DIDP process?</span><o:p></o:p></li></ul><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><ul type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='color:#1F497D;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Would this confidentiality obligation prevent individual Directors from obtaining this information through their Right of Inspection?</span><o:p></o:p></li></ul><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><ul type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='color:#1F497D;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Would this confidentiality obligation prevent an individual Decisional Participant from obtaining this information if they requested it under their Right of Inspection of ICANN accounting books and records pursuant to the provisions of Section 6333 of the CCC?</span><o:p></o:p></li></ul><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><ul type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='color:#1F497D;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo4'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Would this confidentiality obligation prevent the Empowered Community from obtaining the information through its right to launch a third-party, independent investigation if three Decisional Participants determine that there is a credible allegation that ICANN has committed fraud or that there has been a gross mismanagement of ICANN’s resources? </span><o:p></o:p></li></ul><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Finally, I did not see where you clarified whether ICANN engaged vendors to perform similar tasks – “lobbying” or educational/engagement – that may not have been captured by the Congressional database, such as at the state level in the U.S. (particularly California), the U.S. Executive Branch, or in non-US countries. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Best,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Brett </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> <a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Kavouss Arasteh<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 15, 2016 10:36 AM<br><b>To:</b> Xavier J. Calvez<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [CCWG-ACCT] [community-finance] IANA Stewardship Transition - Project Expenses - FY16 Q3 update</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Dear Xavier <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I have sent you the following question to which I have not received any reply<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Perhaps you have been very busy and overlooked my questions<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I still awaiting for clarifications<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Regards<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>KAVOUSS <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Copy of questions raised many weeks ago<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Dear Xavier<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Thank you for all info.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Pls clarify the following<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>1.What is prfessional advice :;this advice is given to whom ,on what subject and why is needed<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>2. what is lobbing here. who lobbies for whom and on what and the need for such lobbies<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>3 Who checks and confirm the legal costs by three legal entities, who decide that there was a need for such legal advice and who checks and control ther tme spent..Many of these advice were repeatation of previous adfvices and just cut and p[aste from one advice to others .Please review all advices given from the begining of 2015 till now<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>We neeed all these detailed info .<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Regards<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Kavouss<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>2016-08-15 16:25 GMT+02:00 avri doria <<a href="mailto:avri@apc.org" target="_blank">avri@apc.org</a>>:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><br><br>On 15-Aug-16 06:43, parminder wrote:<br>> I just said that an Antigua based betting company will be ill-advised<br>> to try to take up a closed gTLD in its name and conduct its business<br>> under it, because it is liable to be seized whenever US authorities<br>> want to do so (by their jurisdiction control over ICANN) . Same is<br>> true of a drug company, say from India, planning global e-com trade of<br>> generic drugs. It will also be ill-advised to risk a closed gTLD in<br>> its name to do such global business, for the same reason.<br><br>I thought that this has to do with the jurisdiction of the registry and<br>the rregistrar itself. And while it may cause concern because there are<br>not as many registries and registrars in non US jurisdictions, there are<br>some and could be more in time. It may also mean that greater efforts<br>should be taken to inform people of the jurisdiction their registration<br>is under and whose laws they are subject to, but I do not see how the<br>location of ICANN main office or place of incorproation affects this issue.<br><br>In any case aren't the issues relatiing to the jurisdiction of<br>registries and registrars among the ones being discussed in the Juris<br>sub group?<br><br>But the conversation has been quite far ranging so could well be missing<br>the point of the disagreement.<br><br>avri<br><br><br>---<br>This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.<br><a href="https://www.avast.com/antivirus" target="_blank">https://www.avast.com/antivirus</a><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><div class=MsoNormal><hr size=4 width=200 style='width:75.0pt' noshade style='color:#58595B' align=left></div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#004B8D'>Brett</span></b> <b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#004B8D'>Schaefer</span></b><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#58595B'><br>Jay Kingham Senior Research Fellow in International Regulatory Affairs<br>Margaret Thatcher Center for Freedom Davis Institute for National Security and Foreign Policy</span></i><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#58595B'>The Heritage Foundation<br>214 Massachusetts Avenue, NE<br>Washington, DC 20002<br><a href="tel:202-608-6097" target="_blank">202-608-6097</a></span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#004B8D'><a href="http://heritage.org/" target="_blank"><span style='color:#004B8D;text-decoration:none'>heritage.org</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>_______________________________________________<br>Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org" target="_blank">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a><br><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org" target="_blank">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>_______________________________________________<br>Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a><br><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></body></html>