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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Tuesday 16 August 2016 11:00 PM,
John Curran wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:EB807E78-B23E-4735-A6A5-D6EA0CBB4275@istaff.org"
type="cite">
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On Aug 16, 2016, at 1:22 PM, parminder <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net"
class="">parminder@itforchange.net</a>> wrote:<br class="">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">As I said, most democratic
governments of the world have laws for access to public
information. Take India's Right to Information Act for
instance. Wikipedia information on it is <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_Information_Act,_2005"
class="">here</a>, and here is <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_Information_Act,_2005"
class="">the actual text</a>. The US also has very good laws
in this regard, to which you can get easy access. Over 95
countries have some kind of freedom of information laws ( see
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_information_laws_by_country">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_information_laws_by_country</a>
) and I think most of them have better transparency laws than
what ICANN adheres to…</blockquote>
<div><br class="">
</div>
Please be specific. ICANN already has a "Documentary
Information Disclosure Policy”,</div>
<div>and to the extent you believe it needs to be changed, it
would be good to hear how.</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
John, I have been as specific as I can. For instance, I want to know
what the organisations said to be doing education/ engagement work
with regard to IANA transition were really doing, and where exactly
were they were doing it. I really have no idea what this huge amount
of money has gone towards. And I have a feeling that I have a right
to know, because I consider '<font face="Verdana">ICANN by its
function is a public governance body" (as I said earlier, and
heard profuse opinion against).</font> I consider ICANN's money as
some kind of public funds...<font face="Verdana"> Dont you think
ICANN needs to disclose this information? (Please be specific.)
The ICANN representative says that in regard to these contracts -
all of them with US entities - that<br>
</font><br>
<blockquote><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">"ICANN
enters into confidentiality obligations as a result of bilateral
negotiations with vendors - either using ICANN templates or
vendor supplied templates. The confidentiality provisions in
these 7 contracts were in many instances vendor supplied forms
and do not allow, either explicitly or implicitly, for ICANN to
disclose publicly the value of the services rendered, or, in
several cases, any information pertaining to the contract
without mutual agreement. <i><b>This is consistent with common
business and procurement practices</b></i><font
face="Verdana">...". (emphasis added)<br>
<br>
</font></span></blockquote>
<font face="Verdana">Such a response would not be admitted under
Indian public information access laws, as with most mature
democracies. ICANN's conduct has *not* to be consistent with
common business practices, it has to be consistent with common
practices of bodies that perform public functions.<br>
</font><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"></span><br>
The defined conditions of non disclosure by ICANN are such that will
today be laughed away in any public information access discussion in
any mature democratic context, things like "Information
requests....are made with an abusive or vexatious purpose or by a
vexatious or querulous individual".
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/didp-2012-02-25-en">https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/didp-2012-02-25-en</a><br>
<br>
I am not clear what is the 'community's' plan regarding this. Does
this group share the expectation that at the end of the transition
process, ICANN will adopt information disclosure policies of the
same level as that of mature democracies today (I give the public
information regimes of India and US as specific examples)? If not,
why so?<br>
<br>
John, it is your turn to be specific :) . <br>
<br>
parminder <br>
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<blockquote
cite="mid:EB807E78-B23E-4735-A6A5-D6EA0CBB4275@istaff.org"
type="cite">
<div>
<div class="">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000" class=""><br class="">
</div>
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<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000" class=""> First,
transparency to whom? Probably you mean accountant's
transparent to you, not to the public... But even if you
are so good as to be calling for the latter, that is your
expectation from someone, which is an entirely private
matter, and your will to do or not do. We, on the other
hand, are talking about *legitimate* expectation of the
*public*, and I see no basis for a legitimate expectation
of the public for your accountant to be entirely
transparent to it. <br class="">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br class="">
</div>
Actually, I again do not concur with your characterization of
anything that might </div>
<div>affect the public as an institution of "public governance",
and you’ve failed to clearly</div>
<div>distinguish why this is the case for ICANN and not the
hundreds of other bodies</div>
<div>that make standards and policies for objects that the public
uses… </div>
<div>
<div class="">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000" class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000" class=""> Some of us
may have decided that we will jettison all known concepts
and theories of political science and governance </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br class="">
</div>
Not jettison, but simply not apply without a valid basis.</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000" class="">… and
consider the Internet and ICANN sui generis but I would
suggest that it is not at all wise to do so. I do not want
to comment on what two kinds of ideologies converge in
this, what I see as, very dangerous direction, so let me
not comment :) <br class="">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br class="">
</div>
Most excellent.<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000" class="">
<blockquote
cite="mid:88B96225-6BFA-4F27-B403-F54546D9CC00@istaff.org"
type="cite" class="">
<pre class="" wrap=""> If you would be specific regarding which particular norms and
standards for transparency you believe ICANN should meet
(regardless of your underlying justification why), then perhaps
we may find areas of agreement among the working group?</pre>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
Yes, I am specific. I want ICANN to uphold the same level
of transparency standards that the more democratic
governments do, and the details are all in the documents
linked above. Tell me how would you want us to go from
here.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
</div>
<div>Cite the standards that you believe are not being met, and
the specific </div>
<div>changes to ICANN you believe this group should consider in
its work.</div>
<div>By doing so, we may be able to make progress in areas of
commonality</div>
<div>despite the lack of alignment in underlying belief systems.</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>/John</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>p.s. my views alone.</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<br class="">
</blockquote>
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