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<body bgcolor="white" lang="EN-US" link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Hello all,</span><span style="font-family:Verdana"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><span style="font-family:Verdana"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">The notes, recordings and transcripts for CCWG Accountability WS2 Meeting #5 – 20 September 2016 will be available here:
<a href="https://community.icann.org/x/Pg6sAw">https://community.icann.org/x/Pg6sAw</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">A copy of the
<span style="color:#18376A">n</span>otes and action items may be found below.</span><span style="font-family:Verdana"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><span style="font-family:Verdana"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Thank you<span style="color:#18376A">.</span></span><span style="font-family:Verdana"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#18376A"> </span><span style="font-family:Verdana"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1D1D1D">With kind regards,</span><span style="font-family:Verdana"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#244185">Brenda Brewer </span><span style="font-family:Verdana"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1D1D1D">MSSI Projects & Operations Assistant</span><span style="font-family:Verdana"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div style="mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 1.0pt 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none;border:none;padding:0in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1D1D1D">ICANN<b>
</b>-<b> </b>Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-family:Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:7.5pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:white">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333"> </span><strong><span style="font-family:Arial;color:#333333">ACTION ITEMS</span></strong><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:7.5pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:22.5pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:white;font-variant-ligatures: normal;font-variant-caps: normal;orphans: 2;text-align:start;widows: 2;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">1. Sub-group rapporteurs should advise in the next two weeks if they are a complex topic or not for purposes of scheduling as presented today. Rapporteurs to deliver their subgroups paper 3 weeks (October
5<sup>th</sup>) prior to Hyderabad outlining work.</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:7.5pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:22.5pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:white;font-variant-ligatures: normal;font-variant-caps: normal;orphans: 2;text-align:start;widows: 2;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">2. Staff to review resources to see if there is a means to do interviews with leaders to assist in drafting positions. Sub-groups to advise staff if interested in this assistance. </span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:16.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#262626"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:16.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#262626"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#262626">Notes:<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
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<strong><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Notes (including key elements of the chat):</span></strong><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<strong><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Action Items:</span></strong><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">Sub-group rapporteurs should advise in the next two weeks if they are a complex topic or not for purposes of scheduling as presented today</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<strong><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">1. Welcome/SOI</span></strong><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Thomas Rickert: No one on phone only. No new SOIs. Mathieu Weill and Leon Sanchez send their apologies.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<strong><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">2. Update on US Senate Hearing on IANA Transition</span></strong><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Steve DelBianco: Theme for this call is keep calm and carry on. Background on current situation vs Congress. Two main factors for conservatives, Political<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
positioning vs a liberal administration and the disrespect of Congress vs the transition from ICANN and NTIA. We should assume there will be at least a 9<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
week delay in transition. We should not split the transition and accountability Bylaws.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">David McAuley (RySG): We have a third witness on this call as well - Paul<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Paul Rosenzweig: Thanks David -- I'm glad you noticed. I don't have any need to intervene<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Jorge Cancio (GAG Switzerland): oh, yes, Paul's point of view would also be useful<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Greg Shatan: Intellectual Property interests have a variety of views.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Paul Rosenzweig: Jeff -- what would you like to know specifically -- I'll answer if I can<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Jeff Neuman (Com Laude): Whether your assessment is the same as Steve's and whether you believe the outcomes are as Steve has said (in your view)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Brett Schaefer: Why shouldn't the accountability reforms be implemented now if the transition is delayed? The bulk of them are not dependent on the transition. Indeed,<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
Bruce and Cherine said that that was the original plan in Morocco. What if the transition is delayed longer than 9 weeks? Are you prepared to wait forever for<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
accountability implementation?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Julf Helsingius (GNSO NCPH NCA): I don't see any reason to wait.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Edward Morris: Agree with Brett and Julf.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Avri Doria: Do we really need to split the Bylaws why not just include a statement that the PTI stuff is not active until the transition.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Alan Greenberg: @Brett, there is a lot of work to do to split the Bylaws and that will take time. I presume that will not be done until it is obvious the<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
delay will be substantial. (> 9 weeks). But that is hypothesis on my part.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Paul Rosenzweig: Assuming it is part of the bill at all ...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Philip Corwin: Near-term Board implementation of accountability measures in face of a delay would be very helpful in ending the Congressional roadblock, while<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
refusal to do so would add fodder to critics, IMHO<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Edward Morris: PTI is roughly 5% of the new Bylaws.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Jeff Neuman (Com Laude): +1 Philip<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Edward Morris: Good point Phil.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Matthew Shears: interesting point Phil<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Alan Greenberg: Even a rider saying that parts are inoperable is a Bylaw change that must go through due process which is time-consuming.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Greg Shatan: @Milton, not denying that some elements of the IP community are playing a role; we saw one as a witness in the Hearing. However, "IP interests" are<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
not monolithic and there is a diversity of views, including support for the transition and for the multi-stakeholder model.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Philip Corwin: It's not just the IANA contract. NTIA must also end RZMA contract with Verisign so that it can contract directly with ICANN to perform root zone<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
maintenance. Until that is in place ICANN would have no power to direct root zone changes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Milton Mueller: Uncertain how we could continue with the transition if there is a new administration.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Steve DelBianco: many variables. We lose nothing by waiting until the election is done.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Edward Morris: Matt, I am not an expert on the "test drive" strategy. What I do know is that by delaying implementation we are playing into the hands of those<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
who are opposing the transition.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Steve DelBianco: "test drive" makes no sense, since we will not "test" our powers in a few months or even a few years. Test Drive is equivalent to indefinite delay.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Matthew Shears: agree Steve<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Milton Mueller: Yes, Ed, we need to get as many of the accountability reforms implemented as possible<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Megan Richards, European Commission: @Steve -agree on ineffectual test drive.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Paul Rosenzweig: We lose nothing by waiting. Some of the opposition ICANN can do nothing about. We will know by the end of tomorrow if a new rider has been included
or not.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Kavouss Arasteh: This is purely an American political issue and we should just move on.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Steve DelBianco: I agree with Paul, that events are moving this week. Let's not game-out all the outcomes. Let's get back to work on WS2<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Steve DelBianco: WS2 implementation is part of the Board's commitment -- regardless of IANA contract<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">David McAuley: +1 @Steve<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Edward Morris: Agree Steve<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Avri Doria: Steve, rights, and after Sept 30, that commitment comes due.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Sivasubramanian M 2: Is the US budgetary allocation / NTIA spending on Transition so substantial that the US budgetary process becomes one of the obstructions?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Steve Delbianco: asper previous answer.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Thomas Rickert: We have done a great job so far and we should be patient and wait for the next few weeks. As to the possibility of a Test Drive - we have baked<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
extensive consultation between the Board and the community which should obviate the need for the community to exercise the community power would make a test drive difficult.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<strong><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">3. WS2 Planning and Timeline</span></strong><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Thomas Rickert: WS2 work plan. There is light engagement by the community currently possibly due to the political uncertainty or fatigue. All items in WS2 are<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
important and need to get done. We probably need to readjust our work plan to be able to deliver by the end of this FY17.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Karen Mulberry: (presentation of slides on Planning and progress). Public Consultations now planned in February and May 2017.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Kavouss Arasteh: We should not revisit what has been decided in WS1.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Sivasubramanian M: WS2 ought not to be time-limited earlier there was a discussion on Accountability as a continuous, ongoing process. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Matthew Shears: a number of the issues under discussion are shaping the discussion on transition in the political sphere - these issues should be dealt with asap particularly
if we are going to stagger from CR to CR<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Edward Morris: Agreed Matt.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Niels ten Oever: @Siva - if we don't set deadlines this work will never end.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Mark Carvell UK GAC rep: Setting public comment periods intersessionally ahead of ICANN 58 and 59 respectively so that these meetings can initiate their finalization<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
with maximum visibility for community is very sensible and practicable approach. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Greg Shatan: It is important for us to recognize that the work in the sub-groups cannot advance if people do not participate. It is important to have active participation<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
on the list and in Google docs between meetings.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Jorge Cancio (GAG Switzerland): I have a certain difficulty in planning too much ahead given the present uncertainty regarding the whole process<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Avri Doria: it is hard to get people to focus on WS2 while WS1 remains only a possibility<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Thomas Rickert: There is effectively little interest in most sub-groups currently. Most participants seem to be waiting to see something to comment on vs writing something.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Christopher Wilkinson: Agree we need more participation in the sub-groups, its not fatigue its just a mountain of work.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Avri Doria: Blank sheets of paper are an insurmountable problem for many people.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Jorge Cancio (GAG Switzerland): clear the overall situation and then we will be able to set clear deadlines<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Mark Carvell (UK GAC rep): Much of WS2 are key enhancements and strengthening of the ICANN model that need to be developed anyway regardless of current political uncertainty.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Jeff Neuman: And there is a lot of other substantive work going on in the ICANN community at the moment. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Jorge Cancio (GAG Switzerland): Jeff is right<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Tijani Ben Jemaa: need to focus on what is required of WS2 by WS1.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Jorge Cancio (GAG Switzerland): I would be interested in having figures about the engagement from the community - volunteer fatigue is melting active participants
to a reduced group.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Jeff Neuman: @jorge, and my fear is that the community has fatigue on the non-policy issues that ICANN is engaged in. In other words, ICANN is supposed to coordinate
substantive policy.....but we have spent the last 18 months+ on procedural accountability issues. What good is an incredibly accountable organization if it cannot perform<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
the substantive tasks it was formed to do.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Thomas Rickert: ACTION ITEM: Sub-group rapporteurs should advise in the next two weeks if they are a complex topic or not for purposes of scheduling as presented<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
today. Unless rapporteurs can deliver a paper 3 weeks prior to Hyderabad we need to do something else. One option could be to do interviews with leaders by staff to<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
write down positions? Minor support and no objection. This is optional and sub-groups that want to use this should advise us of this.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Jeff Neuman: Lots of substantive issues on ICANN's plate now: RDDS/WHois, New gTLD Reviews, SUbsequent Procedures, Rights Protection Mechanisms, Privacy Proxy, Universal
Acceptance / Awareness, etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Michael Karanicolas: Personally - I'd rather draft something myself than provide input by phone.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Niels ten Oever: Is there staff capacity for that? Sounds good to me! Would save a lot of time.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Sebastien Bachollet: I we agree to this schedule we should stick to it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Thomas Rickert: No opposition to using the new project plan and ensure that we follow it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<strong><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">4. Update on Action Item from 30 August Plenary</span></strong><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Karen Mulberry: There are meetings on the 9th.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Sebastien Bachollet: the last day is for the new bodies only.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<strong><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">5. WS2 Budget Update and Travel to ICANN 57 Hyderabad</span></strong><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Bernard Turcotte: (Presentation of slides)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Tijani Ben Jemaa: Rules are different at each embassy.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Alan Greenberg: Varies greatly from one country to another for an Indian visa - very complex.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Kavouss Arasteh: this visa caused issues for many. ICANN should come to some arrangements with countries it holds events in.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<strong><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">6. WS1 WP-IOT-IOT (IRP Implementation Oversight Team)</span></strong><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Becky Burr: (Presentation of the slides). First issue is the<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><strong><span style="font-family:Arial">application of subsequent
modifications rules of existing IRPs.</span></strong><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Avri Doria: Support and explanation of some details regarding the alternative.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Kavous Arasteh: Normally rules are not retroactively applied - but in this case I would support this.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Jorge Cancio (GAG Switzerland): I'm not sure whether others feel the same, but without having some prior info in writing on the issues explained by Becky and<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
Avri it is extremely difficult to follow.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Kavouss Arasteh: Jorge, yes ,it is difficult but the way it has been drafted is quite understandable<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Jorge Cancio (GAG Switzerland): Thanks for that clarifications Becky and Thomas<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">David McAuley (RySG) 2: I was active in the sub-team discussions and this alternative seems a fair compromise of the positions stated. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Becky Burr: Next is<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><strong><span style="font-family:Arial">Deadline to file</span></strong>, There are several alternatives.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Jorge Cancio (GAG Switzerland): under the current rules there seems to be a short timeframe for filing, but it is only triggers if you have or should have<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
awareness. In the new alt 2 24 months would be a hard stop: even if you have no clue you would not be able to file a dispute if you gain awareness afterwards...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Malcolm Hutty: The issue is that we have different disputes, originally there were only process disputes and claimants usually know very quickly if<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
there is an issue. but under the new rules there are also claims vs ICANN following its own Bylaws which is different. As such Alternative 2 is not good. Would<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
be ok for a fixed delay for procedural claims. The 45 days seems a very tight timeline - does this make sense for the EC to make a claim.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Chris Disspain: Malcolm, how do you ensure that folks do not take actions over time that make them effected so that they can bring a claim and could you<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
give me an example of something that would require your formulation?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Chris Wilson: some statute of limitations for all claims makes sense. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Steve DelBianco [GNSO - CSG]: Malcolm's point about the EC decision process is quite compelling<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Greg Shatan: Agree with Chris, there needs to be some finality.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">David McAuley: Have agreed that 45 days is too short but support Alternative 2. We need some finality.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Kavouss Arasteh: Malcolm, you said 45 days is too short. what time frame in your view is not short<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Jorge Cancio (GAG Switzerland): on the other hand an absence of a statute of limitations weakens legal certainty<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Alan Greenberg: @Malcom, what deadline for filing would you propose for a harm that is delayed?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Greg Shatan: I could see expanding the 45 days, at least for the EC.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Greg Shatan: I support Alternative 2.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Becky Burr: Please note that the 45 days is tolled once CEP is initiated, so as a practical matter you only need to signal. Any other views?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Alan Greenberg: Alos support Alternative 2 - there has to be finality.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Malcolm Hutty: If we are agreeing to a fixed time then we are doing something different from a court and is not compatible with the Bylaws. alternative depends<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
on a watchful community but someone may not be harmed and therefore cannot file.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Kavouss Arasteh: Perhaps 24 months may be argued to be too long?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Chris Wilson: For sure! But 2 years is a long time, IMO.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Chris Disspain: my preference would be fewer than 24 but I can accept it if that is the consensus view<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Kavouss Arasteh: Could be change 24 by 12 months?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Chris Disspain: that would be better in my view Kavouss<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Kavouss Arasteh: I have not seen in any analogous case putting such a long period like 24 months<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Chris Disspain: all of these things are a balance and need to be both accommodating and workable<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Becky Burr: but anyone could apply for a name, be denied, and challenge - so I’m not moved by the no standing - the potential lack of motivation is a legitimate concern.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">David McAuley (RySG) 2: +1 @Chris<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Greg Shatan: 24 months seems an acceptable compromise.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Kavous</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">s Arasteh: Supports alternative 2 but not more than 12 months.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">David McAuley (RySG) 2: it is a difficult thing to calculate but the IoT seemed to think 24 months is right if alternative 2 is used<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Chris Disspain: it is the members of the community to have to work most closely within the ICANN framework....especially the contracting parties...they are<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
entitled to a degree of certainty about position so that they can get on with what they need to do<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Greg Shatan: I think 24 months is appropriate. I see calls for longer and shorter times, which indicates we got it right.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Becky Burr: Seem to be gravitating towards Alternative 2 with some time. third issue is<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><strong><span style="font-family:Arial">Cross
Examination of Witnesses at hearings</span></strong>.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">David McAuley: Support alternative 1 strongly. The panel needs to be given a reasonably high bar to avoid trials each time.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Kavouss Arasteh: Prefer Alternative 2 but could live with Alternative 1.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Greg Shatan: do not really support any of these. If we have witnesses, we need to be able to cross examine.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Jorge Cancio (GAG Switzerland): If the role of the hearings gains weight it is important to also consider flexibilities as to venue and language<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Edward Morris: Excellent point David. I also support alternative 1.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Becky Burr: Jorge, those issues will be decided going forward, not as part of the supplemental rules update<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Mathieu Weill, ccNSO, co-chair: Agree Jorge, the very principle of witnesses and cross examination has implications on the ability to remain accessible to<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
all and provide level playing field for non English speaking parties<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Jorge Cancio (GAG Switzerland): thanks Mathieu - that's it - and the venue also plays a role<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Becky Burr: No more inputs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Thomas Rickert: Adjourned.<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Documents<o:p></o:p></span></h3>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333"><a href="https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/61607486/CCWG%20WS2%20Final%20v2%20Plenary%2020Sept2016.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=1474378727000&api=v2"><span style="color:#3B73AF">CCWG
WS2 Final v2 Plenary 20Sept2016.pdf</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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