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<body bgcolor="white" lang="EN-US" link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Cambria",serif">Hello all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Cambria",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Cambria",serif">Please see the notes<span style="color:#1F497D">
</span>and details for the CCWG Accountability <b>WS2 <span style="color:#1F497D">
- </span>Human Rights Subgroup Meeting #12</b> here; <a href="https://community.icann.org/x/jI7DAw"><span style="color:windowtext">https://community.icann.org/x/jI7DAw</span></a></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Cambria",serif">The notes are also listed below.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Cambria",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Cambria",serif">Thank you!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 1.0pt 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Cambria",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Cambria",serif;color:black">Kind Regards,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Cambria",serif;color:black">Yvette Guigneaux<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Cambria",serif;color:#3333FF">Multi-Stakeholder & Strategic Initiative Assistant<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Cambria",serif;color:#1F497D">ICANN |</span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Cambria",serif;color:#1F497D">
<b>Internet Corporation for Assigned Names & Numbers<o:p></o:p></b></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Cambria",serif;color:#1F497D">12025 Waterfront Drive, Playa Vista, CA 90094<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Cambria",serif;color:#1F497D"><a href="mailto:yvette.guigneaux@icann.org"><span style="color:#0563C1">yvette.guigneaux@icann.org</span></a> |
<a href="http://www.icann.org/"><span style="color:#0563C1">www.icann.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cambria",serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:7.5pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:white">
<strong><span style="font-family:"Cambria",serif;color:#333333">Notes</span></strong><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Cambria",serif;color:#333333"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:7.5pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:white;font-variant-ligatures: normal;font-variant-caps: normal;orphans: 2;text-align:start;widows: 2;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<strong><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Cambria",serif;color:#333333">Human Rights
</span></strong><strong><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Cambria",serif">Meeting #12 (15 November @ 19:00 UTC)</span></strong><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Cambria",serif;color:#333333"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:7.5pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:white;font-variant-ligatures: normal;font-variant-caps: normal;orphans: 2;text-align:start;widows: 2;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px">
<strong><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Cambria",serif;color:#333333">Notes (including relevant parts of chat):<o:p></o:p></span></strong></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:7.5pt;background:white"><u><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">1. Administrivia</span></u><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo3;background:white">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#333333"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">Apologies: Anne Aikman-Scalese, Matthew Shears, Tatiana Tropina<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo3;background:white">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#333333"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">Roll call will be taken from AC room.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo3;background:white">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#333333"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">No audio only participants.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo3;background:white">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#333333"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">3 open questions to ICANN legal.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:7.5pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">ACTION (Staff): follow-up with ICANN Legal - Karen: Answers will be provided next week.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l6 level1 lfo4;background:white">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#333333"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): </span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">small update to SOI mine is yet to reflect my new role as ALAC Liaison to the GNSO Council update later today<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l6 level1 lfo4;background:white">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#333333"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">David McAuley: </span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">I think I will need to update my SOI as well as I am taking over as Rapporteur of IRP IoT - not sure if that will require a new SOI but should mention it here just in case<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:7.5pt;background:white"><u><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">2. Analysis and discussion on the progress of the drafting team working on the new proposal for FoI</span></u><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:7.5pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333"> a.‘within the scope of its Mission’<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo5;background:white">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#333333"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">"core value" should be capitalized<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo5;background:white">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#333333"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">David McAuley: </span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">My comment - this section appears fine<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo5;background:white">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#333333"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">No other comments from the group on this section.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:7.5pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333"> b.‘within the scope of other Core Values’<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l5 level1 lfo6;background:white">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#333333"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">Discussed the balancing process:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#333333"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">avri doria: </span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">In this balancing can a core value be violated?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l5 level1 lfo6;background:white">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#333333"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">The FoI says: "The result of a balancing-test cannot cause ICANN to violate any Commitment, as Commitments are binding."<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l5 level1 lfo6;background:white">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#333333"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">David McAuley: </span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">where one core value is honored another might be partially honored or not honored in a balancing test it seems.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l5 level1 lfo6;background:white">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#333333"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">Chris LaHatte: </span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">the usual test for breaches of human rights is one of proportionality.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): </span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">Normally in a balancing test you need to address each and every factor (here each core value) and motivate how this is done and with what result.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">John Laprise: </span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">So, on a given decision/issue. could the community demand of ICANN an explanation of how a particular core value was weighed/applied/respected?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">Pending response from ICANN legal on how the balancing works<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): </span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">Let's also wait for ICANN Legal and their take on how commitments and core values are meant to work together<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">Might require additional text, after responses are received from Legal ICANN.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">Suggestion to change "cannot" into "may not" / ""should not" / "shall not" / "must not" . "Must not" is retained, to be further discussed on the list if necessary.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">Suggestion to add references next to quotations.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:7.5pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333"> c.‘respecting’<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">No comments from the group.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:7.5pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333"> d. ‘internationally recognized human rights’<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">No comments from the group.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:7.5pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333"> e. ‘as required by applicable law’<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">Daniel Appelman: </span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">When read with the "respecting" explanation, this implies that ICANN has no obligation to respect human rights except where national laws directly place ICANN under those obligations.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">avri doria: </span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">David does that not make this meaningless? or rather it just says forget about HR, just obey the law?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): </span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">I had similar concerns to those expressed by Avri. But I feel the Core Value not only restricts ICANN to avoid violating HR. It also brings with it a positive element to be guided by internationally recognised human rights in its actions<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">Greg Shatan: The point is to abide by the laws but still respect Human Rights.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">Daniel Appelman: </span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">ICANN respecting human rights "as required by applicable law" makes little sense when the next section says that mostly only States are required to respect human rights.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">avri doria: </span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">if there is no law protecting a hr, do we still need to care about the hr.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">David McAuley: it's not a matter of not caring, but a matter of observing the law<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">Erich Schweighofer: </span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">ICANN's policies should respect human rights ... but implementation may conflict with applicable law. Sad but reality, contradictions have to be solved by HR institutions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">Jorge: other areas of the FoI cover the obligation of ICANN to respect HR.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">Markus: suggestion to refer to the OECD guidelines.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:7.5pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333"> f. ‘This Core Value does not create, and shall not be interpreted to create, any obligation on ICANN outside its Mission or beyond obligations found in applicable law’<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">not discussed<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:7.5pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333"> g. ‘‘This Core Value does not obligate ICANN to enforce its human rights obligations or the human rights obligations of other parties, against other parties’<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">not discussed<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:7.5pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">3. AOB<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">WIll continue this reading on the list and next week.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:7.5pt;background:white"><b><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue">Action Items</span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:7.5pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue">ACTION (Staff): follow-up with ICANN Legal - </span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333">Karen: Answers will be provided next week.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:7.5pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333333"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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