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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Hello all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">The notes, recordings and transcripts for CCWG Accountability WS2
<b>Jurisdiction Subgroup Meeting #13</b> – 13 December 2016 will be available here:
<a href="https://community.icann.org/x/Y5TDAw">https://community.icann.org/x/Y5TDAw</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">A copy of the notes may be found below.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Thank you.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">With kind regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Brenda Brewer <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">MSSI Projects & Operations Assistant<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="border:none;padding:0in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">ICANN<b>
</b>-<b> </b>Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:22.5pt;background:white"><b><span style="font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Notes: (including relevant portions of the chat):<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:7.5pt;background:white"><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">1. Welcome</span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Greg Shatan: Akimbo and SDB on audio only. No changes to SOIs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:7.5pt;background:white"><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">2. Poll on Proposed Questions</span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:7.5pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:45.0pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:white">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Greg Shatan: Development of questionnaire is ongoing. Interim report on poll about the questionnaire. Current results are for 26 answers we have first 3 questions 92% support to have these going
forward (24 of 26). For the 4th question we have 15 in support and 11 against. Question supporting “sending 3 questions only” generated 22 replies 17 supported sending only 3 questions and 5 did not support.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:7.5pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:45.0pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:white">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Adebunmi Akimbo: .AFIRCA court case is being tried in the US and not in an African court. Would of been better to have an African court decide this. This begs the question what should the rules
be to ensure this type of situation should not happen.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:7.5pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:45.0pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:white">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Greg Shatan: Not our current topic but we can get back to it later.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Kavouss Arasteh: support all questions and sending all questions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Greg Shatan: This is a change in your response to the poll now making the results 15 to 11 for question 4 - is this consensus?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">David McAuley: could take this to the co-chairs?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Paul McGrady: Greg, how are decisions made? Is it majority or consensus? There doesn't seem to be consensus on Q4, but there is a slight majority (at least of poll taker<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:7.5pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:45.0pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:white">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Mathieu Weill: Decision process is complex in this situation - when assessing consensus, it is best to refer to the full CCWG-Accountability. (very sensitive issue).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:7.5pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:45.0pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:white">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Kavouss Arasteh: This group should not make the decision on consensus - we should report the facts (numbers) to the plenary and let them decide.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:7.5pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:45.0pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:white">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Kavouss Arasteh: As the Co-Chair (MW) , pls asdvise Grec that this Group can not decide on the issue but just to report to CCWG pLENARY.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Avri Doria: (audio issues), I will write it out. makes sense to report the failure to have consensus on the poll, but should not ask for them to decide as it was a procedural process. it can decide
on its process.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Kavouss Arasteh: We can not decide on the process<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">avri doria: the failure was on sending the poll out at all.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">David McAuley (RySG): I agree w/Greg about doing poll, especially with WS2 low participation rates<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Greg Shatan: Will discuss with co-chairs if this is ready for the plenary.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Paul McGrady: The poll has been done - we need to report the data as it is.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Kavouss Arasteh: Consistency or otherwise on Q 4 should be decided by CCWG Plenary<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Kavouss Arasteh: Sub Group is part of CCWG AND must report to it<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Kavouss Arasteh: SO/ac ACCOUNTABILITY QUESTIONS WERE APPROVED BY ccwg AFTER TWO READINGS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">KAVOUSS Arasteh: Sorry again for cap ,forgive me<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Paul McGrady: @Staff, don't forget to include the rest of my comment in the notes, which is that Q4 relates to the unwinding of WS1 Accountability measures by suggesting a change of ICANN formation
jurisdictions and it should serve as a chance to ask the Plenary if we should still be considering this (bad) idea<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:7.5pt;background:white"><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">3. Discussion of Preamble (Introduction to Questions)</span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">David McAuley: Presentation of draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Greg Shatan: Comments?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Steve DelBianco [BC]: I like the preamble<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">David McAuley: This does not include the KA and MW text I developed at their request which is: In this regard, the subgroup is asking for concrete, factual submissions (positive, negative, or neutral)
that will help ensure that the subgroup’s deliberations are informed, fact-based, and address real issues. The subgroup is interested in all types of jurisdiction-related factual experiences, not just those involving actual disputes/court cases. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Greg Shatan: Any other comments? (none). This seems to be non-controversial and should be accepted - any objections?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Avri Doria: (unclear about the 4th question).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Greg Shatan: there is divergence on question 4 but we have agreed to bring this to the plenary as suggested by MW.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">David McAuley: this group may wish to include the additional language I pasted in the chat.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Mathieu Weill: The addition is welcome, I think, David<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Greg Shatan: Let us do a temperature check for sending the introduction with the additional language (some supports, no objections). Sending without the additional language (only 1 support, no objections).
Objection to sending the introduction at all (no objections). Seems there is support for sending the preamble with the additional language proposed by DM.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">avri doria: i will abstain as i do not accept sending out the poll.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:7.5pt;background:white"><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">4. Review by CCWG Plenary</span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">(discussed and decided in the previous point - poll results regarding the questionnaire will be presented and discussed by the plenary)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:7.5pt;background:white"><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">5. Mechanics and details of the questionnaire process</span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">a. How to publish/send out questionnaire</span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Greg Shatan: should be announced by ICANN but not as a formal public comment. Any thoughts?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">David McAuley: We need to think about details - how long will this run and how to analyze the results - we should only consider facts and not opinions - and we should all agree on a process for
doing this (still has misgivings on sending out the questionnaire).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">avri doria: we could ask icann to create a poll heading somewhere?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Paul McGrady: Any comment period of less than 30 days will get us in hot water<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">avri doria: if polls ae becoming part of ICANN practice, they should have a spot on the main ICANN pages<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Philip Corwin: Agree that question 4 seeks opinions rather than facts, which is why I do not support it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Paul McGrady: @Avri - +1!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Greg Shatan: 2 issues are important.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">avri doria: we would also have to decide on what constitutued fact and what constituted opinion. i bet we have divergence on that.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">David McAuley (RySG): possibly so Avri<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Philip Corwin: If we start putting poll questions out for 30 days public comment then this WG will take years to complete.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Steve DelBianco [BC]: One lesson learned by the SO/AC Accountability questionnaire: please put numbers on each question so that respondents can designate their response precisely<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">avri doria: i argue for a broader notion of fact, as the definition of fact is often based on social - cultural - political pov,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Wale Bakare: As we are seeking public inputs, i believe these are opinions and facts.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Greg Shatan: When we say facts, we mean actual experiences that have occurred.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">David McAuley (RySG): @Avri - these are the things we need to discuss/agree. I think I would disagree with you but it depends.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Paul McGrady: factual claims are the best we will get, not accuracy-vetted "facts", I'm afraid.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Mathieu Weill: The document Influence of ICANN's existing jurisdiction could help classify the input - experiences, concerns, comments etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Greg Shatan: very helpful MW. Reminder that we need to work on that document.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Steve DelBianco: We took several weeks to decide on the SOAC acct questions which have been sent out. That sub-group will determine if the answers to our questions are valid. what is most important
is not the actual question but the answers.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">David McAuley (RySG): Agree w/Steve and the opinions we might get would take us beyond dispute-resolution-based jurisdictional inquiry<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">avri doria: i hope we are not trying to prevent answers that we cn then judge.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">David McAuley (RySG): beyond, that is<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Greg Shatan: the SOAC acct. questions received 2 readings and approval by the plenary - which has set a standard. Although our questions our not finalized we would benefit from plenary input. Adjourned.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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