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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Tuesday 20 December 2016 01:19 AM,
Phil Corwin wrote:<br>
</div>
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cite="mid:8E84A14FB84B8141B0E4713BAFF5B84E22413867@Exchange.sierracorporation.com"
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
believe that requesting views regarding “<i>providing
possible jurisdictional immunity”</i> are both misleading
and outside the scope of this WG.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">ICANN
based upon the MSM is of necessity an entity that is private
in nature in which civil society, academia, business, and
other private parties formulate policy and governments have
a secondary role to provide advice. The only entities I
know other than nation-states that enjoy any degree of
jurisdictional immunity are International Intergovernmental
Organizations (IGOs) established by treaty, and in those
organizations governments have the controlling role. </span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
International law can establish any kind of body with any kind of
governance structure - it is not necessary for its governance to be
governmental. An international law can very well cut paste ICANN's
existing restructure and processes, and that would keep ICANN
essentially as it is. Just not incorporated under US law but now
under international law, where all people feel more equal. <br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:8E84A14FB84B8141B0E4713BAFF5B84E22413867@Exchange.sierracorporation.com"
type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hence,
pursuit of any type of jurisdictional immunity is equivalent
to an effort to change the fundamental nature of ICANN,</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Not so, as per above. <br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:8E84A14FB84B8141B0E4713BAFF5B84E22413867@Exchange.sierracorporation.com"
type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
as well as being in violation of the key condition of the
IANA transition, which is that ICANN would not become an
IGO.</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
It is the jurisdictional layer that is being changed, from being of
one government, the US, to all governments, meaning international
law. As much as ICANN is not a governmental organisation just
becuase it is incorporated under US (government) law, it does not
necessarily become an IGO if incorporated under international law.
Such characterisations are false and misleading. <br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:8E84A14FB84B8141B0E4713BAFF5B84E22413867@Exchange.sierracorporation.com"
type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
In addition, providing ICANN with jurisdictional immunity
would insulate it from legal process and hence undermine
accountability.</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Not necessarily. Its accountability mechanism through choice of law
can still be made subject to adjudication by Californian courts. <br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:8E84A14FB84B8141B0E4713BAFF5B84E22413867@Exchange.sierracorporation.com"
type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Finally,
as I know based upon my current tenure as Co-Chair of the WG
looking at access to curative rights processes by IGOs, when
we sought expert legal advice on the recognized scope of
immunity for IGOs we learned that such immunity is not
absolute and that the scope is based upon the specific fact
situation involved as well as the national court in which
the immunity is claimed. Hence, going down this road would
require a tremendous amount of additional legal research
dealing with a variety of hypothetical scenarios in separate
national jurisdictions.
</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
It is a matter of equality and democratic rights of non US citizens,
to be governed by laws that they participate in making (reminds me
of a ringing slogan of US independence struggle!). If that matters,
then going through some processes, which may take time and other
resources, should not be a big thing.<br>
<br>
BTW, that is also why we may really need to have some sight of who
is saying and arguing what in this discussion (apropos Kavouss's
request). For US citizens, they have their democratic rights
protected under the current ICANN structures, but not those who are
not US citizens... One keeps hoping that, with its long democratic
and eclectic traditions, US citizens would also be mindful of other
people's democratic rights, but this does not seem so in this
current discussion.<br>
<br>
I have often asked this, but no US citizen ever replies: would you
have accepted sitting down an ICANN with a global governance role to
be subject to Indian jurisdiction and laws? Let one of you at least
give a response :).<br>
<br>
parminder <br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:8E84A14FB84B8141B0E4713BAFF5B84E22413867@Exchange.sierracorporation.com"
type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">Philip
S. Corwin, Founding Principal</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">Virtualaw
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style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">202-559-8597/Direct</span></b><span
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">Twitter:
@VlawDC</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">"Luck
is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey</span></i></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org">mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>parminder<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, December 19, 2016 8:10 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Jurisdiction Proposed
Questions and Poll Results<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Saturday 17 December 2016 12:40 AM,
Mueller, Milton L wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre>SNIP <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>John Laprise's wording was much, much better: <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>"What are the advantages or disadvantages, if any, relating to changing ICANN’s jurisdiction*, particularly with regard to the actual operation of ICANN’s policies and accountability mechanisms?"<o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
This formulation does not include possibilities of
jurisdictional immunity. <br>
<br>
Something like <br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>"What are the advantages or disadvantages, if any, relating to changing ICANN’s jurisdiction*, <b><i>or providing possible jurisdictional immunity,</i></b> particularly with regard to the actual operation of ICANN’s policies and accountability mechanisms?"<o:p></o:p></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
would be better.<br>
<br>
parminder <br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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