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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Tuesday 20 December 2016 02:27 PM,
parminder wrote:<br>
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On Monday 19 December 2016 08:14 PM, John Laprise wrote:<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:01a701d25a06$79da29d0$6d8e7d70$@gmail.com"
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
name="_MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size: 11pt;
color: windowtext;">Possibilities of jurisdictional
immunity? Could you please provide examples of
organizations that enjoy such.</span></a></p>
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</blockquote>
<br>
John<br>
The most well known case of jurisdictional immunity is of course
for organisations incorporated under international law. Unlike
what has been argued here variously, although international law
has to be made by governments through treaties etc that says
nothing about the actual governance structure of the concerned
organisation, ICANN in this case. International law can, to take
an extreme case, hand over complete governance of a body created/
incorporated under international law to you and me... Nothing
circumscribes how international law is written as long as all
countries agree to it. It is entirely possible, and I think
extremely plausible, that they would agree to write in such law
the exact governance structure of ICANN as it is at present. Right
now too, ICANN exists by and under the strength of its law of
incorporation which is US law. In the scenario I present, it would
just be international law instead of US law. Yes, there are
matters to worked out in this regard, but if democracy and
self-determination of all people, equally, is of any importance at
all, we can go through the process, including doing the needed
innovations as needed. The current international system was not
handed over to us by God, it was evolved by people like us, who
responded appropriately to newer and newer global challenges, as
the one that faces us now. To turn ones face away and say, nothing
can be done here, to evolve our democratic international systems,
is to vote for a status quo which serves some, but not others. And
these are the others that are protesting here, and seeking
appropriate change. It is a political issue, lets not treat it as
a technical issue, of what is argued to be difficult or too
"troublesome" to pursue. <br>
<br>
Next, even without going the international law route, as has been
said many times earlier here, US law allows even non profits to be
given jurisdictional immunity. The concerned law is the <font
color="#000080"><span lang="zxx"><u><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://archive.icann.org/en/psc/annex9.pdf">United
States International Organisations Immunities Act</a></u></span></font>
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</style> . And an example of a US non-profit being given jurisdiction
immunity under it is<em><font style="font-size: 10pt" size="2"><span
style="font-style: normal"> </span></font><font
style="font-size: 10pt" size="+1"><span style="font-style:
normal">International Fertilizer and Development Center. </span></font></em>This
has been discussed in a report commissioned by ICANN itself which
can be found at <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://archive.icann.org/en/psc/corell-24aug06.html">https://archive.icann.org/en/psc/corell-24aug06.html</a>
. <br>
<br>
I have been unable to understand why can we not agree to even
jurisdictional immunity under existing US law, which keeps ICANN
in the US, preserves its existing structures, and does go
considerable way to address the concerns about those who are
concerned about application of US public law on ICANN, and what it
may mean for its global governance work. <br>
<br>
The argument is advanced that this may affect the operation of the
newly instituted community accountability mechanism. I dont think
this is not true.</blockquote>
<br>
Sorry, correction, I meant: I do not think this is true. <br>
<br>
p<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:29525c30-48a0-e744-9e08-aa2b5cd2f5be@itforchange.net"
type="cite"> This mechanism is a matter of internal ICANN
governance system, which is a 'private' arrangement with choice of
law available to it. It simply has to be put in ICANN bylaws that
ICANN governance processes will be subject to adjudication by
Californian courts as present. That should do. Of course the
mentioned International Fertilizer and Development Centre also
must be existing with some governance systems, that admit of
external adjudication, even as it enjoys the benefit of
jurisdictional immunity from US public laws. Such immunity always
only pertains to the policy and such international core activities
of the concerned organisation, and associated matters. It would
not, for instance, extend to actual crime being committed by its
personnel on its premises. All such matters of various
distinctions get taken care of when we enter the actual processes
of such immunities etc. Right now, the issue is only to decide to
go down the route, or not.<br>
<br>
parminder <br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:01a701d25a06$79da29d0$6d8e7d70$@gmail.com"
type="cite">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US">Best regards, <o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US">John Laprise, Ph.D.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US">Consulting Scholar<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"></span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/jplaprise/"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#0563C1"
lang="EN-US"></span></span></a><a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/jplaprise/"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/jplaprise/">http://www.linkedin.com/in/jplaprise/</a></a><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"></span><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
<span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"></span>
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1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US"> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org">mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>parminder<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, December 19, 2016 7:10 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Jurisdiction Proposed
Questions and Poll Results<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Saturday 17 December 2016 12:40 AM,
Mueller, Milton L wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre>SNIP <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>John Laprise's wording was much, much better: <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>"What are the advantages or disadvantages, if any, relating to changing ICANN’s jurisdiction*, particularly with regard to the actual operation of ICANN’s policies and accountability mechanisms?"<o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
This formulation does not include possibilities of
jurisdictional immunity. <br>
<br>
Something like <br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>"What are the advantages or disadvantages, if any, relating to changing ICANN’s jurisdiction*, <b><i>or providing possible jurisdictional immunity,</i></b> particularly with regard to the actual operation of ICANN’s policies and accountability mechanisms?"<o:p></o:p></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
would be better.<br>
<br>
parminder <br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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