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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Tuesday 20 December 2016 02:15 AM,
John Laprise wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:08bc01d25a38$e9c7cea0$bd576be0$@gmail.com"
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
name="_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I
was not disputing the existence of jurisdictional issues.
I was pointing out the implausibility of the idea that the
governments of the world would grant jurisdictional
immunity to ICANN</span></a></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Only US has to agree, why would other govs not agree, they are the
ones who badly want a global gov system not to be under one gov. <br>
<blockquote cite="mid:08bc01d25a38$e9c7cea0$bd576be0$@gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
name="_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
in the absence of precedent.</span></a></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Apart from there being many kinds of precedents, do you know of a
precedent of the Internet, or of ICANN, or of the digitally
integrated global systems .... The world and its governance systems
did not grow always just looking to copy a precedent. They grew by
looking outwards, and innovating.... parminder <br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:08bc01d25a38$e9c7cea0$bd576be0$@gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
name="_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-family:"Garamond",serif"
lang="EN-US">Best regards, <o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-family:"Garamond",serif"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Garamond",serif"
lang="EN-US">John Laprise, Ph.D.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-family:"Garamond",serif"
lang="EN-US">Consulting Scholar<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-family:"Garamond",serif"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"></span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/jplaprise/"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#0563C1"
lang="EN-US"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/jplaprise/">http://www.linkedin.com/in/jplaprise/</a></span></span><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"></span></a><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-family:"Garamond",serif"
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-family:"Garamond",serif"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-family:"Garamond",serif"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
<span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"></span>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
lang="EN-US">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org">mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>farzaneh badii<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, December 19, 2016 1:57 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Phil Corwin <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:psc@vlaw-dc.com"><psc@vlaw-dc.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Jurisdiction Proposed
Questions and Poll Results<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I am afraid the jurisdictional problems
that are faced by certain users located in certain countries
are not hypothetical. They are real problems. As we know
about the case of .IR was a very serious case, and it is
still dragging .... how much uncertainty.IR registrants who
are mainly from the private sector should go through? Why?
And it happened because of ICANN jurisdiction nothing else.
I am not for discussions about changing ICANN's
incorporation. But immunity I believe should be discussed.
If you don't see the problem, it does not mean it does not
exist. The reason it seems like it is not the problem is
that those who face them don't know where to go to raise
it! <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 19 December 2016 at 14:49, Phil
Corwin <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:psc@vlaw-dc.com" target="_blank">psc@vlaw-dc.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">I believe that requesting views
regarding “<i>providing possible jurisdictional
immunity”</i> are both misleading and outside
the scope of this WG.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">ICANN based upon the MSM is of
necessity an entity that is private in nature in
which civil society, academia, business, and other
private parties formulate policy and governments
have a secondary role to provide advice. The only
entities I know other than nation-states that
enjoy any degree of jurisdictional immunity are
International Intergovernmental Organizations
(IGOs) established by treaty, and in those
organizations governments have the controlling
role. Hence, pursuit of any type of jurisdictional
immunity is equivalent to an effort to change the
fundamental nature of ICANN, as well as being in
violation of the key condition of the IANA
transition, which is that ICANN would not become
an IGO. In addition, providing ICANN with
jurisdictional immunity would insulate it from
legal process and hence undermine accountability.</span><span
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">Finally, as I know based upon my
current tenure as Co-Chair of the WG looking at
access to curative rights processes by IGOs, when
we sought expert legal advice on the recognized
scope of immunity for IGOs we learned that such
immunity is not absolute and that the scope is
based upon the specific fact situation involved as
well as the national court in which the immunity
is claimed. Hence, going down this road would
require a tremendous amount of additional legal
research dealing with a variety of hypothetical
scenarios in separate national jurisdictions. </span><span
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:navy"
lang="EN-US">Philip S. Corwin, Founding
Principal</span></b><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:navy"
lang="EN-US">Virtualaw LLC</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:navy"
lang="EN-US">1155 F Street, NW</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:navy"
lang="EN-US">Suite 1050</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:navy"
lang="EN-US">Washington, DC 20004</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:navy"
lang="EN-US">202-559-8597/Direct</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:navy"
lang="EN-US">202-559-8750/Fax</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:navy"
lang="EN-US">202-255-6172/Cell</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:navy"
lang="EN-US"> </span></b><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:navy"
lang="EN-US">Twitter: @VlawDC</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"
lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><i><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:navy"
lang="EN-US">"Luck is the residue of design"
-- Branch Rickey</span></i></b><span
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"
lang="EN-US"> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org"
target="_blank">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>
[mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org"
target="_blank">accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>parminder<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, December 19, 2016 8:10 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org"
target="_blank">accountability-cross-community@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Jurisdiction
Proposed Questions and Poll Results</span><span
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-US">On Saturday 17 December 2016 12:40
AM, Mueller, Milton L wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre><span lang="EN-US">SNIP <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">John Laprise's wording was much, much better: <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">"What are the advantages or disadvantages, if any, relating to changing ICANN’s jurisdiction*, particularly with regard to the actual operation of ICANN’s policies and accountability mechanisms?"<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
lang="EN-US"><br>
This formulation does not include
possibilities of jurisdictional immunity. <br>
<br>
Something like <br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">"What are the advantages or disadvantages, if any, relating to changing ICANN’s jurisdiction*, <b><i>or providing possible jurisdictional immunity,</i></b> particularly with regard to the actual operation of ICANN’s policies and accountability mechanisms?"<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
lang="EN-US"><br>
would be better.<br>
<br>
parminder <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US">Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org" target="_blank">Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-US"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
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lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"
align="center"><span lang="EN-US">
<hr style="color:#A0A0A0" align="center"
noshade="noshade" size="1" width="100%"></span></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
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</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Farzaneh <o:p></o:p></p>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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