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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Hello all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Please see the notes, recordings, and transcript for the CCWG Accountability WS2 Human Rights Subgroup Meeting #21 here; <a href="https://community.icann.org/x/85vRAw">https://community.icann.org/x/85vRAw</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">A copy of the notes may be found below. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Thank you.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">With kind regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Brenda Brewer, Projects & Operations Assistant </span></i><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Multistakeholder Strategy & Strategic Initiatives (MSSI)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="border:none;padding:0in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:22.5pt;background:white"><b><span style="font-family:Arial;color:black">Action items</span></b><b><span style="font-family:Arial;color:#333333"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:.25in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2;background:white">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#333333"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">Participants to review FOI Google doc, include suggestions and discuss points on the list.</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:7.5pt;background:white"><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Notes: (Incl relevant portions of chat)</span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">18 Participants at start of call.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:7.5pt;background:white"><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">1. Administrivia</span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:7.5pt;background:white"><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Roll call, absentees, SoIs, etc</span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Niels ten Oever - No audio only. No changes. Mark Carvel and Jorge Cancio have input from the UN group on Business and Human Rights and I would ask if ok for them to present (no objections). will
invite them to one of our future calls to present.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Tatiana Tropina: what exactly would be the benefit of this? Are they aware what we are doing? Are they familiar with ICANN?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:7.5pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:22.5pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:white">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Tatiana Tropina: or are the Ruggie salespersons? Sorry for being harsh<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:7.5pt;background:white"><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">2. Discussion of work-in-progress considerations document by drafting team</span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:7.5pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">(Review of the FOI document - Greg Shatan presenting 3 options)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:7.5pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333"><a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KJfmglI5wBib7T5hgIMMysO7x6J3Oi5NYwN4AItZjkY/edit"><span style="color:#3B73AF">https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KJfmglI5wBib7T5hgIMMysO7x6J3Oi5NYwN4AItZjkY/edit</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">avri doria: Strong support for proposal 2<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Tatiana Tropina: I don't know if "I don't know whether alleged by some" is an appropriate text for such a document<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Tatiana Tropina: I think proposal 1 and 2 can be combined to some extent but we have to be clear that the group hasn't reach an agreement whether to recommend Ruggie<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:7.5pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:22.5pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:white">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Mathew Shears - Want to reinforce point made my GS - have to be careful how this is written. Options should be placed above the statement.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Niels ten Oever - MS could you expand on your views of the 3 options.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Mathew Shears- Really uncertain ADOPTION is the right word. Have to be careful in these options.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Tatiana Tropina: No but to make the second para in the FoI we have to really consider<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Tatiana Tropina: because I wonder where this consideration that they are useful is coming from? Have we agreed on that?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">David McAuley (RySG): Thanks Matthew, fair points<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Tatiana Tropina: I mean have we really considered? And this actually goes together with what Matt is saying<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:7.5pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:22.5pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:white">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Kavouss Arasteh - COULD be used as a guide is correct - this has been discussed over and over - but I do not agree with ADOPTION. We should not keep going over things that are done.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">matthew shears: these 3 proposal are fraught with difficulties<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">matthew shears: yes, we have been here before ...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">avri doria: "could be used as a guide" works for me. but i am more than happy to explore a multitude of wordings.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Tatiana Tropina: I strongly disagree<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Erich Schweighofer: Kavous Arasteh is right - Ruggie is for commercial companies.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Tatiana Tropina - three people from the drafting team were not on the call to raise the issues. Disagree with KA, not all members of the drafting team were present which has caused issues.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">avri doria: no it is for companies. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Greg Shatan: People from different stakeholder groups, I may add.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">avri doria: perhaps more pointed to the commercial affairs. and we cannot deny that ICANN is involved in commerce. it just does it 'not for profits’. but commerce it is.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Erich Schweighofer: No public purpose ...?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Kavouss Arasteh - Tatiana, pls do not impose your views<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">avri doria: ... is invovled in in commerce ...public purpose is the reason. commerce is the method.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Tatiana Tropina - ICANN can in the future agree to follow the Ruggie principles - but our group has not reached agreement on this. But the group has to have the discussion.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Greg Shatan - Agree in large part with TT - we have not reached agreement. Have we completed the discussion - probably not - but we cannot buy the <br>
Ruggies principles wholesale - maybe some subsets - but some parts are certainly unapplicable and possibly against ICANN's mission and this goes beyond the scope of this group.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Niels ten Oever: It's not like we never discuss this.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Tatiana Tropina: we have to have at least the discussion on the option 1 or 2 we never had a discussion whether we have this conclusion or not <br>
exactly so I don't agree with having a sentence just because it sounds nice.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">matthew Shears: I would argue given the differences of opinion and interpretation it is to early to make a commitment of sorts to Ruggie - it may be that <br>
this is addressed in the future as we have also discussed in the past<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Tatiana Tropina - I agree that we can say thay ICANN org or community can decide for themselves what to do with Ruggie we have to be crystal <br>
clear that this group agreed or disagreed upon. I am not against Ruggie if ICANN wil decide to commit. Fine.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Avri Doria: well they have to be guided by the ones that are inappropriate. there is no binding, just a guideline, somethog to get a clue from.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Kavouss Arasteh - If some people did not attend, it may be wrong that that opposed to what has been agreed at the meeting in which several people attending<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">avri doria: well they have to be guided by the ones that are inappropriate. there is no binding, just a guideline, something to get a clue from.[they do not have be guided by ...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Tatiana Tropina: Avri, I am fine with the sentence that we advise to consider if the find this necessary<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">David McAuley: I would add my voice to saying we have to be very careful how we refer to the Ruggie principles. these are simply guidelines as stated in the Bylaws.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Tatiana Tropina: Avri, I am fine with the sentence that we advise to consider if the find this necessary fine. Why not. But let's not confuse anyone with what <br>
we agreed upon and what we considered<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Kavouss Arasteh - Secretatriat , pls also include my comments like other comments<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">avri doria: /9on the notes, there was a not missing in my first sentence)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Greg Shatan: And that's why significant points should not be decided at a single meeting. Otherwise, people could schedule meetings at a time <br>
when people are engaged in other ICANN-related meetings and unable to attend, and use that to jam minority positions through.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Tatiana Tropina: David, agree! A very good point. ICANN can consider Ruggie but we certainly can't decide for them and we haven't agreed what is useful<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">avri doria: agree not binding.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Kavouss Arasteh - If people do not attend a meeting where things are decided you cannot come up after to change things. So do not <br>
agree with TT. Suggest use COULD BE USED WHERE APPLICABLE. We are not charged with any ADOPTION.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): I thought that we worked under that principal Greg<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Tatiana Tropina: They have some strong language<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Greg Shatan: Sorry for the duplication, didn't even know that could happen!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">matthew shears: there is nothing to stop discussion of ruggie occuring in the future<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Tatiana Tropina: and any language which is vague can still be used to go outside the limits<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Tatiana Tropina: Matt +1<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">avri doria: ( greg been happenin to me too - did not understand how it happened )<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Tatiana Tropina: it is appropriate when people didn't raise any issues we are raising them now<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">avri doria: decsions are not made in one meeting, i thought<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">David McAuley (RySG): disagree respectfully w/Kavouss - if a person misses one meeting they should still be able to be heard<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Tatiana Tropina: Especially if the person was trying her best to draft and raise issues<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">John Laprise: Strongly disagree with Kavous. We want a strong output document. Period.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Tatiana Tropina: We can't rush compromising the quality<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">John Laprise: agreed Tatiana. Kavous: we're not in the UN we're volunteers working on Internet governance policy.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">avri doria: i thought we were working toward consensus as much as possible and nothing is decided until everything is decided. and that is by the plenary not us.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">matthew shears: + 1 Tatiana<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): certainly we take that as rule for my WT and all other groups in ICANN I work with Avri<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Tatiana Tropina: if we are to go for the option 2, we have to consider it not as a sentence but content wise<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Greg Shatan: Agree with Avri & Cheryl. And with Niels position on where we are and the two readings rule.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">matthew shears: yes<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Niels ten Oever: As TT and MS have said there may be a combination of options 1 and 2 which could work.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">matthew shears: yes<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Tatiana Tropina: only if we consider option 2 properly<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Kavouss Arasteh - Avri, if you want to make a principle of "i thought we were working toward consensus as much as possible and <br>
nothing is decided until everything is decided. and that is by the plenary not us.- pls submit your views to CCWG Plenary<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">avri doria: Kavouss, not me. I thought that was the modality we worked by.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Kavouss Arasteh - Not at all<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">avri doria: and ICAN Consensus not Full Consensus<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): yup<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Kavouss Arasteh - who agreed with that modality - is it in the charter?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">avri doria: of WS2?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">avri doria: i thought so.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Greg Shatan: I cannot agree with general support for the Ruggie Principles.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">matthew shears: proposal 1a and 2 wil need some serious massaging and would need to be future oriented - the first para of proposal 1 stands as a separate statement of fact<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">David McAuley (RySG): Well put Greg that RP is not a banned book and not THE guide<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Tatiana Tropina: If we adopt Option 2 we have to mean it and we have to be very clear on what we are agreeing to - need to discuss properly - will support any consensus.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">matthew shears: its a marriage that will need a lot of work<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">avri doria: I think Tatiana concern is premature<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Niels ten Oever: Might also be interested to hear the UN WG about this<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Kavous Arasteh - Cannot say Ruggie Principles are completely inapplicable. this has been discussed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Tatiana Tropina: it was discussed and we never agreed it was applicable<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Tatiana Tropina: if we agree - fine. I am fine. I am against the sentence without a proper consideration.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Greg Shatan: The Ruggie Principles are most certainly not "applicable law."<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Tatiana Tropina: no, they are not applicable law<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">David McAuley (RySG): +1 Greg and Tatiana<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Niels ten Oever: No, they are a soft-law instrument.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">avri doria: my point was that is is premature to worry about the details of Ruggie. It is a guide for those doing commerce. anyone using it will <br>
have to take into account all thr restraints of the bylaws and not use it inappropriately. to do that up front seems premature.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Tatiana Tropina: I think it is as premature as recommend to include the sentence only because we like how it is written proposal two hasn't got <br>
enough consideration it’s still a proposal. And we for now just consider it as a sentence, a text.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Greg Shatan: First ws have to discuss whether it could be useful.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Tatiana Tropina: Yes. If we write this we have to discuss this. yes exactly - not all are useful, right? why are we writing they are all useful?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Kavouss Arasteh - Use Could, would etc. Saying not applicable is not good - this has been discussed many times.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Tatiana Tropina: I think Kavouss is very close to the truth - under sertain circumstances if so decided by ICANN org, board or community<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Niels ten Oever: @Kavouss - added to the GoogleDOC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Tatiana Tropina: depending on the case<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Greg Shatan - We cannot recommend the Ruggie Principles wholesale - some may be useful. This is a decision for another time - which could be <br>
useful or appropriate under what circumstances. Lets not go through them one by one.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">matthew shears: we are interpreting and implementing the bylaw. as to whether it is useful for interpreting we have discussed and that we could <br>
not agree. there is nothing to prevent them being revisited in the future and we could address them in that context<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Tatiana Tropina: Greg what if we leave the decision whether to use them as a guidance to those who want to use? ICANN org etc<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">matthew shears: we are not ruling them out<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Tatiana Tropina: with careful consideration I also don't think so - it's not our task. But we have to be clear that it's up to them to decide and that we couldn't agree<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">matthew shears: + 1 Greg<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Niels Ten Oever - GS proposal sounded like a good compromise - could you put this in the Google Doc?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Kavouss Arasteh - Tend to agree with last statement of GS - Certain principles could be used for guidance under certain circumstances. This would <br>
work and leave it at that.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Tatiana Tropina: +1 greg<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">avri doria: except for the 'under any circumstance' goes too far let the future decide what fits the bylaws not us<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Tatiana Tropina: we didn't suggest to say it wasn't applciable. we suggested to say we couldn't recomment and that's not up to us to decide<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">David McAuley (RySG): agree with Greg - RP is not to be "recommended" but can/may be a guide in appropriate circumstances that might <br>
help ICANN discern what it ought to do under bylaw constraints<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Tatiana Tropina: other than that. agree with Greg David, and it should be their decision, not ours - the applicability<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Avri Doria: yes Tatiana<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Matthew Shears: agree<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">David McAuley (RySG): exactly - we cannot peer into the future for ICANN, thay must abide by bylaw in the day<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Niels ten Oever: Positive is nice<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): the proposed text when captured then of course needs to go to the list for wider review and then discuss in our next meeting<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Tatiana Tropina: I am not against I am just against blank decisions and recommendations. If ICANN decides to use Ruggie I would be only welcoming <br>
this. Well, if they decide with careful consideration :-)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">avri doria: whereas the guidelines should still guide<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Niels ten Oever - Sounds like a possible compromise. Can we move to other parts of the text in these last few minutes of the call. Lets share this language <br>
and have two readings of it to confirm consensus.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">David McAuley (RySG): agree w/CLO<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Tatiana Tropina: agree with Cheryl, too<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Markus Kummer: there is room for some creative drafting!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Tatiana Tropina: this is not finished and we have to redraft and re-discuss to make everyone happy - Markus, there is always the room... last week it was <br>
Hilton breakfast room ;-) for three of us<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Tatiana Tropina - for the policy framework part - change operationalize to PUT IN PRACTICE etc. (review of document). Each SOAC should take this <br>
into consideration individually. Balancing important.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">David McAuley (RySG): I think the word "commitment" (last word penultimate sentence) ought to be "core value"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Niels ten Oever - please look at the document and comment on the list. I will propose to present where we are in Copenhagen at the plenary tomorrow <br>
as we will not have consensus by then.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Kavouss Arasteh - What is TT proposing?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Niels ten Oever - a work in process but we are progressing. Lets hope we can continue to do this going forward. Talk next week. Adjourned.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:#333333">Decisions – none<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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