<div dir="ltr"><div>Dear All,</div><div>I read a message from Parminder which I copy here for those who have not read it.</div><div>This is an important issue that co-chair needs to consider under item 5 of the Agenda.</div><div>Regards</div><div>Kavouss </div><div>See below</div><div><p><font face="Verdana">Quote</font></p><p><font face="Verdana"><em>Colleagues,</em></font></p><p><em><font face="Verdana">Excuse my disappointed tone, but I am unable to get a fix on what direction are we headed right now, or whether we are </font><font face="Verdana">moving </font><font face="Verdana">at all .</font></em></p><p><em><font face="Verdana">We seem to have laid all our hope on some legalistic pursuits, which happen to be of a kind with known outcomes. On one side we have sent out a questionnaire with an exceedingly narrow remit of seeking past occurrences where ICANN's US jurisdiction may have come in conflict with ICANN's working. All of these instances are very widely known and discussed, and whatever inferences each of us makes out of them is what we make out of them. Though these differences and their rationales can be discussed here. There is not going to any case of some guy from deep Indian jungles </font><font face="Verdana">suddenly </font><font face="Verdana">coming out with a story of an old illicit liaison with ICANN, which will then open our eyes to something very new. Whom are we kidding, other than ourselves, all the cases that exist are know - quite well known. If we want to, we can discuss them. But this waiting for godot isnt going to be of any use.</font></em></p><p><font face="Verdana"><em><font color="#ff0000">If some people believe that this exercise is going to make us able to say; well, we looked everywhere, and we found no proof that US jurisdiction of ICANN has any (or any substantial) implication for ICANN's policy making processes, that is simply plain silly. That is not going to happen. Our differences here are not about some unknown historical facts, but about facts that we all mutually know, and our respective inferences from them</font>. <br></em></font></p><p><font face="Verdana"><em>Similarly, we have referred to ICANN legal issues of jurisdiction and jurisprudence that are so obvious and simple that even a non lawyer like me is pretty clear about them. In any case, there is enough literature out there on how courts exercise jurisdiction, and what trumps what, and so on. <font color="#ff0000">There is no way that this exercise is going to come up with some kind of proof that US jurisdiction is only as much applicable over ICANN as any other jurisdiction, or that even if ICANN was incorporated elsewhere, or had judicial immunity, the US jurisdiction will still have same kind of powers over ICANN as it does now. </font></em></font></p><p><br><font face="Verdana"><em>I think we should stop shadow boxing, and get on with real tasks. </em></font></p><p><font face="Verdana"><em>IMHO, <font color="#ff0000"><u>this group is mostly not able to decide what to do, knowing that the differences of opinions (and excuse me to say, interests) are very wide, and also very basic. And therefore we are simply trying to look like keeping busy. I dont think this is a very productive use of people's time. </u></font><br></em></font></p><p><font face="Verdana"><em>Does anyone have any bright idea about how we can wrap this all up...</em></font></p><p><font face="Verdana"><em>parminder"</em><span></span></font></p></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2017-03-28 19:36 GMT+02:00 Bernard Turcotte <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:turcotte.bernard@gmail.com" target="_blank">turcotte.bernard@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default"><div style="font-size:12.8px"><p class="MsoNormal">All,<u></u><u></u></p></div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><p class="MsoNormal">Here is the agenda<u> </u><span style="font-size:12.8px">for the </span><span class="m_2081409392231971093gmail-m_9099162999365433235m_-7547752374521448734m_-8331029212593671509gmail-aBn" style="font-size:12.8px"><span class="m_2081409392231971093gmail-m_9099162999365433235m_-7547752374521448734m_-8331029212593671509gmail-aQJ"><span class="m_2081409392231971093gmail-aBn"><span class="m_2081409392231971093gmail-aQJ">Wednesday</span></span></span></span><span style="font-size:12.8px"> </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">29 March 1300 plenary.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal">Adobe room as usual is <a href="https://participate.icann.org/accountability" target="_blank">https://participate.icann.<wbr>org/accountability</a> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal">Agenda:</p></div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style="margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 30pt;font-size:12.8px"><div><p class="MsoNormal">1. Introduction, update to SOIs, reminder on standards of behavior<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">2. Review of Agenda<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">3. Administration<u></u><u></u></p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 30pt;font-size:12.8px"><ul type="disc" style="margin-bottom:0cm"><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:15px">Staffing changes<u></u><u></u></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:15px">Review of action items from previous meeting<u></u><u></u></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:15px">DashBoard data and completion dates.<u></u><u></u></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:15px">Status on open public comments.<u></u><u></u></li></ul></blockquote><blockquote style="margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 30pt;font-size:12.8px"><p class="MsoNormal">4. Legal Committee Update <u></u><u></u></p></blockquote><blockquote style="margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 30pt;font-size:12.8px"><ul type="disc" style="margin-bottom:0cm"><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:15px">Jurisdiction sub-group questions to ICANN Legal.<u></u><u></u></li></ul></blockquote><blockquote style="margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 30pt;font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">5. Updates/Presentation from sub-groups </span><br></blockquote><blockquote style="margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 30pt;font-size:12.8px"><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u></p></blockquote><blockquote style="margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 30pt"><ul type="disc" style="font-size:12.8px;margin-bottom:0cm"><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:15px">SOAC Accountability - Second reading (updated document)<u></u><u></u></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:15px">Diversity Questionnaire - Second reading (updated document)</li></ul></blockquote><blockquote style="margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 30pt"><span style="font-size:12.8px">6. Next Plenary</span><br></blockquote><blockquote style="margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 30pt;font-size:12.8px"><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u></p></blockquote><blockquote style="margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 30pt;font-size:12.8px"><ul type="disc" style="margin-bottom:0cm"><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:15px">Wednesday 12 April 1900UTC<u></u><u></u></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:15px">Documents due 5<span class="m_2081409392231971093gmail-m_9099162999365433235m_-7547752374521448734m_-8331029212593671509gmail-aBn"> April 23:59UTC</span><u></u><u></u></li></ul></blockquote><blockquote style="margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 30pt;font-size:12.8px"><div><p class="MsoNormal">7. AOB<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">8. Adjournment</p><p class="MsoNormal"><br></p></div></blockquote><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><span style="font-size:12.8px">Bernard Turcotte</span></font></span></div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div class="gmail_default"><span style="font-size:12.8px">ICANN Staff Support to the CCWG-Accountability-Ws2</span></div></font></span></div>
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