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<p><font face="Arial, sans-serif"> I have
made clear that at this stage it is the process of making this
wrongful intervention and not its substance that is to be the
focus. But s</font><font face="Arial, sans-serif">ince there
were some proposals
to accept the "we wont talk about changes in ICANN
incorporation" part of the decision and move on,
let me make some comments on this substantive part. </font>
</p>
<p><font face="Arial, sans-serif">A lot of people in this group turn
up their noses at any discussion on the problems with ICANN
being a
US non profit while it does an important global governance role.
Many try to make it look like as if they have never known any
serious
actors interested in this discussion, and allege that it all
coming
from fringe radical elements without anything better to do.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial, sans-serif">Some history may be worth
revisting
in this regard. At the WSIS, everyone knew ICANN's US
incorporation as
one of the biggest issues around. That was 12 -14 years ago, and
the
issues has only become more salient since. So, please, whatever
be
your views on the issue, please do not deny that this one has
been
the single biggest political issue around ICANN ever since it
was
born (those attempts to take the process to Geneva and all!).</font></p>
<p style="line-height: 0.58cm; orphans: 1" align="left"><font
face="Arial, sans-serif">Lets
fast forward. When the Snowden moment happened, even the so very
politically conservative "technical community", which
included the ICANN, itself called for "</font><span
style="font-variant: normal"><font color="#333333"><font
face="Arial, sans-serif"><font style="font-size: 12pt"
size="3"><span style="font-style: normal"><span
style="font-weight: normal">accelerating
the globalization of </span></span></font></font></font></span><span
style="font-variant: normal"><font color="#333333"><font
face="Arial, sans-serif"> </font></font></span><span
style="font-variant: normal"><font color="#333333"><font
face="Arial, sans-serif"><font style="font-size: 12pt"
size="3"><span style="font-style: normal"><span
style="font-weight: normal">and </span></span></font></font></font></span><span
style="font-variant: normal"><font color="#333333"><font
face="Arial, sans-serif"> </font></font></span><span
style="font-variant: normal"><font color="#333333"><font
face="Arial, sans-serif"><font style="font-size: 12pt"
size="3"><span style="font-style: normal"><span
style="font-weight: normal">functions,
towards an environment in which all stakeholders,
including all
governments, participate on an equal footing." (<a
href="https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2013-10-07-en">Montevideo
statement </a>)</span></span></font></font></font></span></p>
<p style="font-variant: normal; font-style: normal; font-weight:
normal; line-height: 0.58cm; orphans: 1" align="left">
<font color="#333333"><font face="Arial, sans-serif"><font
style="font-size: 12pt" size="3">Have
we forgotten that, or accept that it was a dishonest
statement, in a
moment of existential fear! Is it being claimed that with
globalisation of IANA and ICANN, withdrawal of NTIA's IANA
role alone
was meant, and nothing else. I want to hear someone say
that, however
untenable it is. And is it being claimed that "all
governments"
(that emphasis is clear in the above statement) today
participate in
the DNS system on an equal footing? It is being denied that
the US
jurisdiction over ICANN puts the US state's power over ICANN
at an
entirely different level than of any other government, as
was made
evident during sub group's discussions and many responses to
the
questionnaire? </font></font></font>
</p>
<p style="line-height: 0.58cm; orphans: 1" align="left"><font
face="Arial, sans-serif"><span style="font-variant: normal"><font
color="#333333"><font style="font-size: 12pt" size="3"><span
style="font-style: normal"><span style="font-weight:
normal">The
Montevideo statement reaffirmed the call of Tunis Agenda
that all
government that "all governments should have an equal
role and
responsibility for international Internet governance."</span></span></font></font></span></font></p>
<p style="orphans: 1"><font face="Arial, sans-serif"><span
style="font-variant: normal"><font color="#333333"><font
style="font-size: 12pt" size="3"><span style="font-style:
normal"><span style="font-weight: normal">The
ICANN co sponsored netmundial conference and
statement, to which many
here often adhere closely, declared that "</span></span></font></font></span>It
is expected that the process of globalization of ICANN speeds up
leading to a truly international and global organization serving
the
public interest."</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial, sans-serif">Is it being claimed that all these
statements and promises went not at all beyond withdrawal of
NTIA's
IANA role? Lets be a little more honest to our own past
statements. </font>
</p>
<p style="font-variant: normal; font-style: normal; font-weight:
normal; orphans: 1">
<font color="#333333"><font face="Arial, sans-serif"><font
style="font-size: 12pt" size="3">US
jurisdiction over ICANN was and will remain a central issue
about
ICANN's legitimacy and accountability. It is evident from
its long
history and solid entrenchment as described above that this
is not a
kind of issue about which the CCWG chair can simply land
announced
one day and unilaterally declare a gag. No, this issue just
does not
being to that kind of a level. </font></font></font>
</p>
<p style="orphans: 1"><font face="Arial, sans-serif">Whatever the
final recommendations, this issue must be discussed thoroughly,
and
<span style="font-variant: normal"><font color="#333333"><font
style="font-size: 12pt" size="3"><span style="font-style:
normal"><span style="font-weight: normal">various
strong views on it recorded in the final report. This
was always a
central mandate of this group, and the CCWG chair
cannot unilaterally
rewrite the mandate. </span></span></font></font></span></font>
</p>
<p style="font-variant: normal; font-style: normal; font-weight:
normal; orphans: 1">
<font color="#333333"><font face="Arial, sans-serif"><font
style="font-size: 12pt" size="3">If
indeed the group seeks to come to a conclusion that,
important while the
incorporation issue is, and there being multiple global
statements on
it, we find the ICANN community simply not mature to
consider this
big political issue internally by itself (as in CCWG 1 it
was found that the
community is not mature enough to have a membership based
ICANN),
then let it be recorded in that many words. Including that
we want other, "higher" forums, to discuss and decide this
for us<br>
</font></font></font></p>
<p style="font-variant: normal; font-style: normal; font-weight:
normal; orphans: 1"><font color="#333333"><font face="Arial,
sans-serif"><font style="font-size: 12pt" size="3">I wont
accept this key
issue to be dismissed through a simple procedural manoeuvre.
It just
does not belong to that level.</font></font></font></p>
<p style="font-variant: normal; font-style: normal; font-weight:
normal; orphans: 1">
<font color="#333333"><font face="Arial, sans-serif"><font
style="font-size: 12pt" size="3">In
sum, I would *not* agree to go with those who are now ready
to take the
ICANN incorporation issue off the table, if tailored
immunity
discussions are allowed. (I must mention that I consider the
latter
option a very important one, and have been arguing for it
for many
months.) Yes, I do not expect this group to make a consensus
recommendation on changing ICANN's incorporation/
jurisdiction, but
the issue needs discussion and its various elements must be
recorded
and reported, in the final report. </font></font></font>
</p>
<p style="font-variant: normal; font-style: normal; font-weight:
normal; orphans: 1">
<font color="#333333"><font face="Arial, sans-serif"><font
style="font-size: 12pt" size="3">It
is too convenient for the chair to peremptorily conclude
that there
is unlikely to be a consensus agreement to change ICANN's
incorporation. But then it is also a fact that there is no
consensus
that the current status quo is acceptable. This especially
comes
storngly in the questionaire responses. Why dont we record
that particular absence of consensus about the appropriate
of current jurisdictional status quo, rather then the
favoured ones. </font></font></font>
</p>
<p><font face="Arial, sans-serif">parminder </font>
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0cm; line-height: 100%"><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Sunday 25 June 2017 10:32 AM,
parminder wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:b2193aab-79b6-7c4c-797f-51a55a41fe38@itforchange.net">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<p><font face="Verdana">All</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana">Since I will not be able to attend today
f2f meeting I wanted to share some points.</font></p>
<p>The main issue for the meeting, in my understanding, is to deal
with the sudden decision of the CWCG chair about what the sub
group should and should not do. It is clear that this decision
has been found faulty and criticised by majority of participants
in the e-discussions here, even those who otherwise may agree
with not pursuing the course that the Chair unilaterally forbid
us from taking. The decision is simply procedurally wrong, and
must be dumped... Among other things, it begun with the "out of
scope" discussion and suddenly became "unlikely to find
consensus" decision -- which are two very different things.
Almost everything is wrong with the manner in which the decision
was imposed on the group. <br>
</p>
<p>It is evident that there was a premeditated attempt - I dont
know among or at the behest of whom - to simply gag the
jurisdiction discussion, which happens to be one of the most
important topics since the start of the transition process, and
even much before.. It appears that it was triggered from some
nervousness arising out of the responses to the questionnaire
that was sent to the public, where many response spoke of need
for clear institutional changes to the jurisdictional status
quo. The conspiratorial basis of this decision is also
highlighted by how in a single sweep not only the discussions on
possible changes to the ICANN incorporation but the much more
"easier to deal with" subject of tailored immunities for ICANN
was banned to be discussed any further. <br>
</p>
<p>There has been simply no grounds for this....In any case, it
was the sub group chair's decision that we will come to
"remedies" or institutional changes only after having listed out
"issues" that need to be addressed. The sudden parachuting in of
the CCWG chair's decision therefore looks even more problematic,
and smells of something quite not right going on behind the
curtains. <br>
</p>
<p>Neither there was enough ground-work done towards reaching this
decision that goes to the very heart of the sub group's work. If
there is any claims of due process in ICANN, we need to simply
strike down the decision, and start anew with whatever concerns
there may be that precipitated this crisis. <br>
</p>
<p>The Chair must explain why he made this problematic
intervention, and whether sub group chair had submitted a report
that the sub group's work is not able to be pursued. Strangely,
the sub group chair has been presenting this as entirely the
CCWG chair's decision. What did CCWG learn, from where, and what
was his chain of reasoning to make this decision? Did he hold
any closed group or individual consultations? We must be told
what really happened.</p>
<p>Subsequent to the strong reactions to the decision, CCWG chair
must withdraw it, or the CCWG assembly should force it to be
withdrawn. It is wrong in process, and it cannot now be
attempted to be corrected post-facto by admitting some
substantive changes. The process itself is sacrosanct, and must
be upheld, independent of the nature of substantive views in the
group. <br>
</p>
<p>I suspect that the decision will be attempted to made palatable
by making marginal concessions on it, but that I insist is not
the point. Upholding due process, and resisting abuse of process
and power must be our first and main priority today.</p>
<p>parminder</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Tuesday 20 June 2017 12:46 AM,
Mueller, Milton L wrote:<br>
</div>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Sorry
if I missed the boat, Greg, but I did review the emails on
the list fairly extensively before commenting, and it sure
looked like we were having a scope debate rather than a
substantive debate. It is possible that the initial
framing as a scope debate triggered a lot of responses and
emotions that the overall dialogue never got beyond. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">One
of the problems with framing it as scope is that it lets
those who want to argue for a change in the
jurisdiction/place of incorporation off the hook. They can
make perfectly reasonable and convincing arguments that it
is not out of scope, even if they are unable to
demonstrate a clearly superior alternative to California
law that is compatible with the WS1 accountability
mechanisms. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Let’s
get out of that rut.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I
think the subgroup has done more extensive quality work
than people who are watching it day to day realize. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">We
have clarified the set of problems we face with the layer
model;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">We
have reviewed most of the relevant court cases (still
ongoing);<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">We
have identified specific problems with U.S. jurisdiction
(OFAC and similar US-imposed sanctions);<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">We
have discussed the US Immunities Act, and with one or two
exceptions agreed that it would not be a good path to take<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">We
have discovered that those who most want to move it out of
California cannot name or identify a specific, superior
location/jurisdiction, but must instead appeal to
“international jurisdiction,” which means a new
international treaty and new organizational arrangement
that would require re-doing the entire transition process.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Let’s
reach consensus on two simple points: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo9"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">There
ARE problems of accountability caused by U.S.
jurisdiction, notably around OFAC sanctions<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo9"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">There
is no reasonable prospect of improvement to come from
uprooting ICANN, completely changing its legal status and
moving to an unknown and as yet undeveloped alternative<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt">
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
Greg Shatan [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 19, 2017 12:44 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> John Laprise <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:jlaprise@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><jlaprise@gmail.com></a>;
Mueller, Milton L <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:milton@gatech.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true"><milton@gatech.edu></a>;
ws2-jurisdiction <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:acct-staff@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">acct-staff@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Ws2-jurisdiction] Question
Presented<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Milton,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I actually agree with you, up to
a point. The slide you refer to was a strawman and
a jumping-off point for discussion. By the second
call, last week, we had moved away from that slide
and from discussing the issue in terms of scope.
The CCWG Co-Chairs instead framed the issue around
the question "what will get sufficient traction in
the group" vs. subjects that will not get sufficient
traction, and thus would not lead to a consensus
recommendation. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">However, I don't think this was
an instance of anyone preempting a discussion, much
less dishonestly. As noted, no issues have been
foreclosed by the Co-Chair's decision, which is
aligned with your point #2 -- the "lack of traction"
for recommending changes to ICANN's corporate
status. I hope that everyone is interested in
substantive debate, and I hope to see plenty of it
in this group in the coming weeks.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Greg<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 10:41
AM John Laprise <<a
href="mailto:jlaprise@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">jlaprise@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a
name="m_-3431946777163345412_m_838243520182108" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#993366">+1</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#993366"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#993366">Best
regards, </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#993366"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#993366">John
Laprise, Ph.D.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#993366">Principal
Consultant</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#993366"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a
href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/jplaprise/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#0563C1">http://www.linkedin.com/in/jplaprise/</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#993366"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#993366"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#993366"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid
#E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><a
href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org</span></a><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
[mailto:</span><a
href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org</span></a><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Mueller, Milton L<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 19, 2017 9:40
AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Greg Shatan <</span><a
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</span></a><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">>;
ws2-jurisdiction <</span><a
href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org</span></a><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">><br>
<b>Cc:</b> </span><a
href="mailto:acct-staff@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">acct-staff@icann.org</span></a><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Ws2-jurisdiction]
Question Presented</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Please
pardon my late intervention. We were
presented with this question:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p
class="m-3431946777163345412m8382435201821088497default"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="color:#1F487C">Question: Is
considering or recommending changes to
ICANN's status as a not-for-profit
California corporation within the scope of
the Subgroup?</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Two
things seem obvious to me:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<ol start="1" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="color:#1F497D;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo5"> <span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">The
issue IS within the intended scope of the
subgroup, and </span><o:p></o:p></li>
</ol>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<ol start="1" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="color:#1F497D;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l5
level1 lfo8"> <span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">There
is overwhelming consensus AGAINST
recommending changes to ICANN’s status as
a nonprofit California public benefit
corporation. </span><o:p></o:p></li>
</ol>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">It
seems to me that most of the debate is
confusing issue #1 with issue #2. The entire
discussion has not developed any real
alternative, much less a clearly superior
one, to California jurisdiction. The
identified problems with US jurisdiction
(mainly OFAC) can be addressed without
moving ICANN’s place of incorporation. So
let’s stop trying to dishonestly pre-empt
resolution of the jurisdiction issue by
ruling certain discussions “out of scope.”
Let’s resolve it honestly by developing and
acknowledging consensus around the fact that
other than the meaningless mirage of
“international jurisdiction” there is no
better framework within which to work than
California law. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">The
debate about scope, in other words, is a
diversion from the substantive issue, and I
wish the chairs and the Americans in the
subgroup would stop trying to pre-empt
substantive debate with scope debate. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I
will not be in Johannesburg so I hope people
who agree with me can take this perspective
into the f2f meeting.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Dr.
Milton L. Mueller</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Professor,
School of Public Policy</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Georgia
Institute of Technology</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt">
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid
#E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><a
href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org</span></a><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> [</span><a
href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org</span></a><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Greg Shatan<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 8, 2017
9:29 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> ws2-jurisdiction <</span><a
href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org</span></a><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">><br>
<b>Cc:</b> </span><a
href="mailto:acct-staff@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">acct-staff@icann.org</span></a><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Ws2-jurisdiction]
Question Presented</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Please see attached.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org" moz-do-not-send="true">Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction" moz-do-not-send="true">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
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