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As Michael and Kathy already mentioned, that simply isn't enough in the view of many. </div>
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marksv>>> Understood. Since we are consensus-based, until "many" tips to "most", I will continue to share my perspective.</div>
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Sticking to that is a clear way to not make things move forward. The days of not facing consequences for data misuse are over.</div>
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marksv>>> Consequences will be faced because they will be enforced under the applicable data privacy law. I understand Michael's statement that victims of privacy abuse historically aren't made whole, but there isn't any reason to assume that this will remain
the case under GDPR, and ICANN's history of compliance enforcement is also historically poor, so faith in additional penalties to be levied by ICANN seems unfounded. </div>
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It's ok to have a legitimate need and use it with due care, but claiming a need where one does not exist, or getting data thru a real need and later releasing it inadvertedly cause damages. </div>
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marksv>>> This is not under debate.</div>
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BTW, you know better than most that canceling credentials usually only lead to a new set of credentials in another name/address, so even the disaccreditation penalty by itself is not a deterrence. </div>
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marksv>>> This is an important point- if an accreditation process is so weak that offenders simply and easily acquire new creds, then there really is no point implementing it. I do have faith that this particular issue will be addressed in the final implementation.</div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Rubens Kuhl <rubensk@nic.br><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 19, 2018 1:16:42 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Mark Svancarek<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Cyntia King; John R. Levine; accred-model@icann.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Accred-Model] Version 1.6 of the Accreditation and Access Model</font>
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<div class="">As Michael and Kathy already mentioned, that simply isn't enough in the view of many. Sticking to that is a clear way to not make things move forward. The days of not facing consequences for data misuse are over. It's ok to have a legitimate need
and use it with due care, but claiming a need where one does not exist, or getting data thru a real need and later releasing it inadvertedly cause damages. </div>
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<div class="">BTW, you know better than most that canceling credentials usually only lead to a new set of credentials in another name/address, so even the disaccreditation penalty by itself is not a deterrence. </div>
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<div class="">Rubens</div>
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<div class="">Em 19 de jun de 2018, à(s) 17:09:000, Mark Svancarek <<a href="mailto:marksv@microsoft.com" class="">marksv@microsoft.com</a>> escreveu:</div>
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<div class="" style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px">There is no need to change UDRP or URS in pursuit of a foolish consistency. The penalty imposed within the accreditation and access system should be disaccreditation and loss of access.</div>
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<font face="Calibri, sans-serif" class="" style="font-size:11pt"><b class="">From:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Rubens Kuhl <<a href="mailto:rubensk@nic.br" class="">rubensk@nic.br</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, June 19, 2018 12:54:50 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Mark Svancarek<br class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Cyntia King; John R. Levine;
<a href="mailto:accred-model@icann.org" class="">accred-model@icann.org</a><br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Accred-Model] Version 1.6 of the Accreditation and Access Model</font>
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<div class="">Em 19 de jun de 2018, à(s) 16:45:000, Mark Svancarek <<a href="mailto:marksv@microsoft.com" class="">marksv@microsoft.com</a>> escreveu:</div>
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<div class="" style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px">I've always assumed that determination of a civil or criminal violation, assignment of a penalty, and enforcement of the penalty were the responsibility of appropriate agencies within the appropriate jurisdictions
of EEA, and therefore outside of the scope of ICANN. The same assumption would apply to any potential future privacy laws created and enforced elsewhere in the world. The only role I could see for ICANN is possible removal of accreditation according to a
TBD process after such a penalty is assigned. (per IV.F)</div>
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<div class="">If that was true, then UDRP and URS should also be terminated in favor of executive branch and judiciary proceedings. We are building a system, and that system can have its own penalties for non-compliance. </div>
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<font face="Calibri, sans-serif" class="" style="font-size:11pt"><b class="">From:</b><span class="x_x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Accred-Model <<a href="mailto:accred-model-bounces@icann.org" class="">accred-model-bounces@icann.org</a>> on behalf of Cyntia
King <<a href="mailto:cking@modernip.com" class="">cking@modernip.com</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="x_x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, June 19, 2018 11:26:57 AM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="x_x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>'Rubens Kuhl'<br class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b><span class="x_x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>'John R. Levine';<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:accred-model@icann.org" class="">accred-model@icann.org</a><br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="x_x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Accred-Model] Version 1.6 of the Accreditation and Access Model</font>
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<span class="" style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif; color:rgb(13,13,13)">This would be an enforcement nightmare.</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif; color:rgb(13,13,13)"> </span></p>
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<span class="" style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif; color:rgb(13,13,13)">Multiple enforcement mechanisms for ICANN Whois accreditation policy including govt agencies - potentially many govts around the world.</span></p>
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<span class="" style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">Could we implement standardized penalties? Or would it vary govt-to-govt?</span></li><li class="x_x_x_MsoListParagraph" style="margin:0in 0in 6pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(13,13,13)">
<span class="" style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">Would there also be private, for-profit enforcement entities?</span></li><li class="x_x_x_MsoListParagraph" style="margin:0in 0in 6pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(13,13,13)">
<span class="" style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">Would each entity be able to charge whatever they want?</span></li><li class="x_x_x_MsoListParagraph" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(13,13,13)">
<span class="" style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">What would happen if a govt wasn’t following the rules themselves - would they have provider contracts w/ ICANN?</span></li></ul>
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<span class="" style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif; color:rgb(13,13,13)">Unfortunately, this proposition sounds like an unmanageable, expensive & fragmented mess to me.</span></div>
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<b class=""><span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif; color:rgb(13,13,13)">Cyntia King</span></b></div>
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<span class="" style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif; color:rgb(13,13,13)">O: +1 816.633.7647</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif; color:rgb(13,13,13)">C: +1 818.209.6088</span></div>
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<b class="">From:</b><span class="x_x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Rubens Kuhl <<a href="mailto:rubensk@nic.br" class="">rubensk@nic.br</a>><span class="x_x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="x_x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, June 19, 2018 1:03 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="x_x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Cyntia King <<a href="mailto:cking@modernip.com" class="">cking@modernip.com</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b><span class="x_x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>John R. Levine <<a href="mailto:johnl@iecc.com" class="">johnl@iecc.com</a>>;<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:accred-model@icann.org" class="">accred-model@icann.org</a><br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="x_x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Accred-Model] Version 1.6 of the Accreditation and Access Model</div>
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Cyntia,</div>
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Just to be clear, the initial suggestion by Michael Palage incorporated in itself a mechanism, instead of relying on Privacy Shield. Perhaps Privacy Shield certification could be use to achieve some of its requirements in order to save for organizations already
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Rubens</div>
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Em 19 de jun de 2018, à(s) 14:58:000, Cyntia King <<a href="mailto:cking@modernip.com" class="">cking@modernip.com</a>> escreveu:</div>
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<span class="" style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif; color:rgb(13,13,13)">Easy for whom?<br class="">
I'm a small business owner & this is daunting, to say the least.<br class="">
And there are multiple fees involved.</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif; color:rgb(13,13,13)">Are we suggesting that this should be ICANN’s enforcement mechanism for accessing Whois data? This would be on top of the accreditation & fees we’re already discussing, right?</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif; color:rgb(13,13,13)">What about ‘foreign’ companies - are we asking non-US companies to self-certify w/ the Us govt?</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif; color:rgb(13,13,13)">I don’t see how this solves much of anything, but it would certainly make accreditation more difficult & expensive.</span></div>
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<b class=""><span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif; color:rgb(13,13,13)">Cyntia King</span></b></div>
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<span class="" style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif; color:rgb(13,13,13)">O: +1 816.633.7647</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif; color:rgb(13,13,13)">C: +1 818.209.6088</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif; color:rgb(13,13,13)">-----Original Message-----<br class="">
From: Accred-Model <</span><a href="mailto:accred-model-bounces@icann.org" class=""><span class="" style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">accred-model-bounces@icann.org</span></a><span class="" style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif; color:rgb(13,13,13)">>
On Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl<br class="">
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2018 12:48 PM<br class="">
To: John R. Levine <</span><a href="mailto:johnl@iecc.com" class=""><span class="" style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">johnl@iecc.com</span></a><span class="" style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif; color:rgb(13,13,13)">><br class="">
Cc:<span class="x_x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="mailto:accred-model@icann.org" class=""><span class="" style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">accred-model@icann.org</span></a><span class="" style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif; color:rgb(13,13,13)"><br class="">
Subject: Re: [Accred-Model] Version 1.6 of the Accreditation and Access Model</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif; color:rgb(13,13,13)">> Em 19 de jun de 2018, à(s) 14:32:000, John R. Levine <</span><a href="mailto:johnl@iecc.com" class=""><span class="" style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif; color:rgb(13,13,13); text-decoration:none">johnl@iecc.com</span></a><span class="" style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif; color:rgb(13,13,13)">>
escreveu:</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif; color:rgb(13,13,13)">>> It's great when there is actually an easy solution. At least for the many US companies, law firms, cybersecurity firms, and others (and this a huge part of the group seeking
access), they should "self-certify" to the EU-US Privacy Shield, via procedures set up by the US Department of Commerce and Federal Trade Commission.</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif; color:rgb(13,13,13)">> Well, at least until the EU courts kill privacy shield like they did Safe Harbor.</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif; color:rgb(13,13,13)">> Banks and non-profits such as CAUCE are not eligible for Privacy Shield (they're not regulated by the FTC or DOT.) For small organizations the PS rules are extremely conplex
and there's a mandatory annual payment to cover potential arbitration costs.</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif; color:rgb(13,13,13)">> Can we back up and explain what problem this overcomplex "solution" is supposed to be solving here?</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif; color:rgb(13,13,13)">Having redress mechanisms for data subjects that have their data privacy rights violated. With great power, there must also come great responsibility.</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif; color:rgb(13,13,13)">Rubens</span></div>
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