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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Hello all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Please find included below some high level notes from today’s ccPDP3-RM meeting, held on 23 September at 12 UTC.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Best regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Joke Braeken<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0cm" start="1" type="1">
<li style="color:black;margin-top:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;mso-list:l8 level1 lfo1;vertical-align:baseline">
<b>Welcome and roll call</b><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></b></li></ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Welcome by Eberhard Lisse, Vice Chair who is filling in for Stephen, who joined a bit later. Stephen apologised for being late. Thank you all for participating. Bart sent his apologies.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">All materials and the recording are posted on the workspace.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><a href="https://community.icann.org/x/lgObC"><span style="color:#1155CC">https://community.icann.org/x/lgObC</span></a><span style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;text-indent:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2;vertical-align:baseline">
<![if !supportLists]><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span></b><![endif]><b><span style="color:black">Administrative announcements, if any</span></b><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;text-indent:0cm;mso-list:l6 level2 lfo3;vertical-align:baseline">
<![if !supportLists]><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">a.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span></b><![endif]><b><span style="color:black">Carve-out process</span></b><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">No longer doing a single PDP for both retirement and review.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Bart, the issue manager, will propose the carve-out of the retirement WG to the Council. There will be some administrative procedures, including public consultation. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Eberhard: issue for the ccPDP3-retirement WG. assumes there will be a vote by the ccNSO membership as well.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;text-indent:0cm;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo4;vertical-align:baseline">
<![if !supportLists]><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">3.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span></b><![endif]><b><span style="color:black">Action items</span></b><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">None</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;text-indent:0cm;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo5;vertical-align:baseline">
<![if !supportLists]><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">4.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span></b><![endif]><b><span style="color:black">Decision points table </span></b><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Bernard produced a table with a recap.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">First time it is being presented here.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><i><span style="font-family:"Cambria Math",serif;color:black">⇒</span><span style="color:black"> Delegation new ccTLD as a result of an MA action. </span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Issue for review:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="disc">
<ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="disc">
<li style="color:black;margin-top:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;mso-list:l4 level2 lfo6;vertical-align:baseline">
Failure to accept application<o:p></o:p></li><li style="color:black;margin-top:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;mso-list:l4 level2 lfo6;vertical-align:baseline">
Contesting an approved but pending delegation<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
</ul>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Little time between approval and the delegation, to allow for appeals.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Who can apply? = who has standing?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">If a decision is hard to undo, you may want to introduce a timeline when someone starts the process for the appeal. Hard to conceive that we take a delegation away. What is an appropriate delay for allowing someone
to contest. After that there is no recourse. Draft suggestion of 30 days. Just a suggestion.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">The applicant is not a ccTLD manager, so is not yet eligible for IFO review.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Process for the delegation can take a long time.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Eberhard: add a note that there might be differences where the entity is an individual or an entity.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Bernard: yes, we will go through this in more detail. See the column “who can apply”: residence, or place of business, allowing for both types of applicants.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Bernard: IRP. review whether you meet the core requirements. Check-list, so that the body that will run this, can decide whether or not to run the case. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Other than mediation, there is the ombudsman, challenging a board decision. All tools available will need to be considered. Should they be optional? Or a requirement, before going into a full review?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">We should allow sufficient time for a party to submit a request. What is the max allowable time for a request for review? 30 days from when? From a Board decision to an IRP process: ok. But other processes require
time. the 30-day period would have to take into account that mediation for instance might take longer. It could already take 30 days to set up mediation. Interplay between the various mechanisms needs to be looked at very carefully. We cannot disallow people
to use the review process, including all possible steps.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Nigel: Concerned that we do not get too specific. Any decision to be reviewed. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Regarding the time scale. Failure to decide within a reasonable time frame is one ground to stop the process. For the person alleging to note something.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Bernard: understands the timing concern. At this point in our process, he left it out. We can get back to it. Understands the concerns. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Eberhard: he who alleges has to prove. Agrees with this concept. To be noted. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><i><span style="font-family:"Cambria Math",serif;color:black">⇒</span><span style="color:black"> Transfer</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Bernie suspects that it might be complicated. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">All factors that PTI considers when thinking about a delegation/transfer. What do you base your argument on, saying that it was not correct that you were rejected? Access to information? What does PTI publish. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Nenad: burden of proof.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">If someone reports not to be GDPR compliant. Those that report are not the ones to prove that the other party is not compliant. The other party needs to proof to be compliant</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Nigel: (audio breaking up). We need time and opportunities to seek facts</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Kim: how would failure to accept an application work? In practice the iana team does not reject applications, instead, identify things that are missing, or request more information. In practice, iana stops hearing
from the applicant. Close the request without prejudice. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Bernie: that brings up the question of timing</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Eberhard: bilateral relation between the cctld manager and iana. Principle of burden of proof still applies, and Eberhard does not agree with Nenad.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Bernie: we may need to adjust some of the PTI procedures to make them workable with an appeals process. What is critical is that we make sure that it is sensible for all.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><i><span style="font-family:"Cambria Math",serif;color:black">⇒</span><span style="color:black"> Retirement</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Only thing that is open to appeal, is the failure to grant an extension. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Standing is clear: a ccTLD manager, who is eligible for IFO review</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><i><span style="font-family:"Cambria Math",serif;color:black">⇒</span><span style="color:black"> Revocation</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Is in our rules, can be called upon. Such a decision would probably have to go through the board. Would require a period of oppose. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Eberhard: .au and .ke were revoked, technically speaking.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Any general questions? None</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;text-indent:0cm;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo7;vertical-align:baseline">
<![if !supportLists]><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">5.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span></b><![endif]><b><span style="color:black">Prioritized list of issues</span></b><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Bernie prepared a second document</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">What should we be looking at, when getting into an appeal?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0cm" start="1" type="1">
<li style="color:black;margin-top:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;mso-list:l5 level1 lfo8;vertical-align:baseline">
Standing<o:p></o:p></li><li style="color:black;margin-top:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;mso-list:l5 level1 lfo8;vertical-align:baseline">
Mechanics: who will administer all the definitions we come up with? (less of a concern. ICANN already has an IRP and there are several independent groups who can do this)<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><i><span style="font-family:"Cambria Math",serif;color:black">⇒</span><span style="color:black"> 1/ standing </span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Firstly, we need to understand: What can be appealed? By whom? What is required?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Nigel: this is the right focus. Look at the rules for standing in the board accountability mechanisms committee. Someone needs to be adversely affected in order to bring a complaint. Can someone bring a complaint
on behalf of a broader community that is adversely affected?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Bernie: wrestled with the harm-aspect. For gTLDs, harm falls in clear categories. Not so clear in this case. Looking forward to the discussion</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Eberhard: .eh iana asked applicants to sort it out among themselves. That avoids a review. To be looked into as an example. Both parties who have applied should be able to appeal. Both competing parties. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Nigel: this was a corner case. Great to bring it up. Harm also goes to the wider community that does not gets its ccTLD.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Bernie: counterpoint. RFC5091. In many cases this served us well. Do we want to force iana to make decisions more quickly? We need to be very careful when coming up with a system.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><i><span style="font-family:"Cambria Math",serif;color:black">⇒</span><span style="color:black"> 2/ What a statement of claim requires? </span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">What info is available to contest a decision? Level playing field needed. What is really confidential?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><i><span style="font-family:"Cambria Math",serif;color:black">⇒</span><span style="color:black"> 3/ Types of appeals and their interrelations</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><i><span style="font-family:"Cambria Math",serif;color:black">⇒</span><span style="color:black"> 4/ Timing for applications for review</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Bernie: advises to be careful. When going through all these procedures before the delegation is done, we could be talking about a procedure that takes easily 1 year. To be careful.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;text-indent:0cm;mso-list:l10 level1 lfo9;vertical-align:baseline">
<![if !supportLists]><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">6.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span></b><![endif]><b><span style="color:black">AOB</span></b><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Stephen asks about the carve-out process, whether this was discussed.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Eberhard confirms</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;text-indent:0cm;mso-list:l9 level1 lfo10;vertical-align:baseline">
<![if !supportLists]><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">7.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span></b><![endif]><b><span style="color:black">Next meetings</span></b><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
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<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span style="color:black">7 October (20:00 UTC)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span style="color:black">4 November (04:00 UTC)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span style="color:black">18 November (12:00 UTC)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;text-indent:0cm;mso-list:l7 level1 lfo11;vertical-align:baseline">
<![if !supportLists]><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">6.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span></b><![endif]><b><span style="color:black">Closure</span></b><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Bernie encourages all to review the table and list of issues, and to post comments/thoughts/questions on the mailing list.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Next meeting: start addressing the issue of standing. Bernie will prepare a document that expands on that section.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Thank you all. Bye.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Joke Braeken<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">ccNSO Policy Advisor
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">joke.braeken@icann.org<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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