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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Hello all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-US">Please find included below the high level notes from today’s ccPDP3-RM meeting, held on 7 October at 20 UTC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-US">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-US">Joke Braeken<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:black">ACTION ITEMS</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">AI#1</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Staff to write the elements regarding the discussion around standing, for review by the group.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:black">NOTES </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0cm" start="1" type="1">
<li style="color:black;margin-top:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;mso-list:l6 level1 lfo1;vertical-align:baseline">
<b>Welcome and roll call</b><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></b></li></ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Welcome by Chair Stephen Deerhake.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">To consult the recording and a copy of the materials used, go to
</span><a href="https://community.icann.org/x/ggjQC"><span style="color:#1155CC">https://community.icann.org/x/ggjQC</span></a><span style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;text-indent:0cm;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2;vertical-align:baseline">
<![if !supportLists]><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span></b><![endif]><b><span style="color:black">Administrative announcements, if any</span></b><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;text-align:justify"><span style="color:black">Originally 2 policy documents foreseen:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;text-align:justify"><span style="color:black">Part 1: ccPDP3- retirement | part 2: ccPDP3-review mechanism</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;text-align:justify"><span style="color:black">Proposal by ccPDP3-ret is to carve out the work by that group from the overall pdp.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;text-align:justify"><span style="color:black">Mechanism : ccpdp3-ret needs to submit a final policy document. Comments received did not require substantive changes to the language of the interim report. To be addressed at ICANN69. Changes
in terminology by ISO maintenance agency, that require minor updates to the document.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;text-align:justify"><span style="color:black">Issue Manager needs to submit a final report to Council requesting a carve out. ccNSO Council needs to agree with the carve-out. Adopted by council and submitted to the Board. Vote by membership
prior to council approval.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;text-indent:0cm;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo3;vertical-align:baseline">
<![if !supportLists]><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">3.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span></b><![endif]><b><span style="color:black">Decision points table/spreadsheet</span></b><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:36.0pt">
<b><i><span style="color:black">3.1 Additional question to include retirement</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">We forgot an appeal. If an exceptionally reserved ccTLD changes status, IFO can decide whether they need to retire the ccTLD. If the IFO recommends to proceed, that decision can be appealed. Added to the table,
in yellow.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Peter: only for cases that are currently grandfathered, correct? Please make it more explicit in column 2</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Eberhard: if an exceptionally reserved code for which a cctld corresponds (.ac) were to go to the main list. What would happen with the ccTLD manager? Does that manager continue? To be used as a stress test. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Bernie: our edge case was slightly different. Moving to full list => retirement policies do not apply. However if there is an exceptionally reserved code used by a ccTLD renders a geo location, and then delegated
to another geo location, what do we do? Thin edge case. Bernie to discuss with Jaap. There are mechanisms to deal with that technically.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Eberhard: mentions it from the aspect of appealability.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Nick: grandfathered (.uk) or otherwise recognised exceptionally reserved (.eu).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Bernie: policy makes no distinction</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Peter: did not mean to make a distinction between .eu, .uk and .ac. What should not be covered: .su</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Eberhard: what matters is if it is appealable. Distinction between grandfather and .eu: board resolution in place.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Jaap: grandfather means that it was just in the root when ICANN took over. No documented wider history. For .eu there was a specific board decision. No need to put further interpretation in it</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">KimD: grandfather is more specific. There is a definition on the iana website. Interpretation they use operationally </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Language -> ICANN codified the rules under which future exceptionally reserved delegations may be considered in 2000 in Resolution 00.74. Certain domains were delegated on the basis of being “exceptionally reserved”
by the ISO 3166 Maintenance Agency prior to this date. These domains were “.UK”, “.AC”, “.GG” and “.JE”. Of these, “.GG” and “.JE” are now listed in the ISO 3166-1 standard and therefore qualify normally. The remaining two domains that are grandfathered under
their original eligibility are “.UK” and “.AC”.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Peter: a one off</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Kim: It’s guidance that has now been applied for over 20 years, and is referenced routinely when we receive applications that pertain to these codes, so its hard to say it is a one-off. But it is well within the
remit of the ccNSO to develop superseding policy.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;text-indent:0cm;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo4;vertical-align:baseline">
<![if !supportLists]><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">4.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span></b><![endif]><b><span style="color:black">Review mechanism decision points</span></b><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Issue list of things we need to do. One of the biggest things is standing. Who can use the appeals mechanism under the circumstances?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Nigel liked the IRP definition of who can use the IRP. Anyone who has been harmed. Bernie is uncertain to that. Too wide.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">IRP is not a court. Can find that icann has failed e.g. to follow the bylaws in the decision that is being appealed.. It cannot prescribe what icann should do as a result of that. Technically, it does not apply
to ccTLDs. ombudsman and reconsideration requests are available to anyone.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">1.1.1.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">It shouldn’t be because you made an application, you can appeal. We try to avoid silly situations. If you are completely unqualified, there is no reason why you should be able to appeal. Will also be important
in the 2nd case. If the delegation is granted, who can appeal the delegation approval?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Eberhard: who will be the arbiter saying you are qualified or not.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Bernie: support or non objection of a government</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Either we can decide that there are box-ticks of who is available or not, or there are more interesting considerations. Those managing the appeals system should be independent, and given the elements to look at.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Comment by Eberhard and summary by Bernie:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Only who can appeal an approval of a delegation before it is delegated, would be someone who applied.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Allan: is there value in dealing with the easier cases, before we go into the more difficult cases? We talked about applicants. We need to consider governments and discuss those. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Bernie: the simple ones are really clear. Revocation for instance. On retirement is the cctld that is exceptionally reserved that can appeal.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Eberhard. Don’t go for the easy ones first, if they depend from each other. Start in a logical manner.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Only applicants should be able to appeal. Live case: western sahara. 2 parties that wanted the ccTLD. Good had valid applications. IFO had to make a decision. Second party who did not get the ccTLD should be able
to apply.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Peter Koch: consequence of Eberhard his suggestion is that pro forma application is a wild card for an appeal</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Bernie: if we go with that, there will be pro forma applications, if there are no other conditions</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Eberhard: RF5191 quote. (faint audio) Eberhard refers to discussions at ICANN in New Delhi. We do not need to increase our mandate.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Bernie: IFO definition of significantly interested party. Part of the concerns with the applicants: when they apply. Timelines are critical. When is the application made? Application before decision is made: is
it then still appealable</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Eberhard: if one party has support of the interested parties and the other not. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Bernie: no appeals after delegation. Timeframe after a decision has been taken, and the delegation? What is the window for appeal?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">When we talk about delegation, the processes are very long. Year or more. If the ifo has been working for 8 months on a delegation file, and there is no second applicant, and they are about to make the decision
soon, since the final info required has been sent it, and then someone puts in an application. Are we starting the process for IFO to evaluate the application again?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Eberhard: ifo to write that once the process has started applications should come in by x deadline.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Failure to accept is separate issue. Losing applicants: ifo could tell them that the applicant x was selected. The other applicant has x time to appeal</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Bernie: more interesting is transfer. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Eberhard: there is no such thing as a third party here.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Bernie: conceptually same thing as delegation. Applicants can appeal a negative decision.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Third case: retirement</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">1.1.6: awaits ccpdp4. Idn cctld who was not granted can appeal the decision</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">If we stick to this, we went through all the standing case. To be written up, but that would cover standing.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Decision to go 15 min over time.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Allan: Bernie should be asked to write it up. Separate comment: understand that the role of gvt is circumscribed. If there is no appeal for gvt, why is that the case. How to explain the gvt why they would not
have standing. Credible argument needed.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Eberhard: no preemptive obedience to governments needed. Cctld matter, not a gvt matter.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Bernie: gvt implication is from the outset. Significantly interested party and ifo’s responsibility to consider that. Gvt has an overwhelming say before the process even starts</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Allan: Bernie made my point. We need to take the time to explain to gvt.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Maarten: question. We discussed revocation. But how would that work here? Who has standing? Especially the decision to revocate.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Eberhard: revocation is interpreted by ifo as substantial misconduct.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Bernie agrees</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;text-indent:0cm;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5;vertical-align:baseline">
<![if !supportLists]><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">5.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span></b><![endif]><b><span style="color:black">AOB</span></b><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">None</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;text-indent:0cm;mso-list:l5 level1 lfo6;vertical-align:baseline">
<![if !supportLists]><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">6.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span></b><![endif]><b><span style="color:black">Next meetings</span></b><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">No meetings in October for ccPDP3-RM, however at ICANN69: ccPDP-RET | Oct 15 | 14:00-15:00 UTC</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">4 November (04:00 UTC)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">18 November (12:00 UTC)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;text-indent:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo7;vertical-align:baseline">
<![if !supportLists]><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">7.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span></b><![endif]><b><span style="color:black">Closure</span></b><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Thank you all</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Joke Braeken<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">ccNSO Policy Advisor
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">joke.braeken@icann.org<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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