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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Dear All,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Please find included below the notes form today’s ccPDP3-RM meeting held on Wednesday, 17 March at 5 UTC.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Joke Braeken<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0cm" start="1" type="1">
<li style="color:black;margin-top:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo1;vertical-align:baseline">
<b>Welcome and roll call<o:p></o:p></b></li></ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Welcome by Chair Stephen Deerhake</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;text-indent:0cm;mso-list:l8 level1 lfo2;vertical-align:baseline">
<![if !supportLists]><b><span style="color:black"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span></b><![endif]><b><span style="color:black">Administrative announcements, if any<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Public comments for ccPDP3-ret ends 14 April</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><a href="https://www.icann.org/public-comments/ccpdp3-1-retirement-cctlds-2021-03-03-en"><span style="color:#1155CC">https://www.icann.org/public-comments/ccpdp3-1-retirement-cctlds-2021-03-03-en</span></a><span style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Comment from Patricio Poblete sent to Stephen: FOI Report mentions review mechanism.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Experts from ccTLDs would hear IANA and the complainant and decide whether or not to take the complaint further.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Eberhard: I can live with Patricio’s proposal, but for fairness sake I would suggest that:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">1. IFO selects one panel member</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">2. the ccTLKD Manager selects one</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">3 the two selected one select a third one, and should they not be able to decide on one, we need to come up with a fair mechanism to do so</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;text-indent:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3;vertical-align:baseline">
<![if !supportLists]><b><span style="color:black"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">3.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span></b><![endif]><b><span style="color:black">Action Items<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">No action items from previous meeting</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;text-indent:0cm;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo4;vertical-align:baseline">
<![if !supportLists]><b><span style="color:black"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">4.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span></b><![endif]><b><span style="color:black">Requirements discussion with ICANN Legal<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Slides prepared by Sam Eisner</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Recap of what was discussed in February 2021. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Areas for further clarification:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">>>> Is the scope still open? Binding decision of IANA or Board?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Bart: the latest version of the doc you read has not been vetted yet. Number 4 was still unclear at the time, and is still unclear</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Eberhard: RFC said that decision should be binding. We do not need to include in our developed policy an appeal mechanism on our review mechanism. Binding means to ICANN and ccNSO members. They do not have a legal
recourse in this. Therefore jurisdiction is not our problem. The mechanism: will you have some form of law or jurisdiction. Under what legal framework are RFC panels proceeding? Placeholder. Early stages of the discussion</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Sam: choice of law is further down. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">ccNSO policies are only applicable to ccNSO members. What happens to non-members? Those external to the process? Concern to apply this equally to all ccTLDs, whether or not they are a member of the ccNSO?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Eberhard: RFC is clear. If 2 parties cannot come to an agreement they can apply for a review. 2 contending parties: IFO and the ccTLD manager. First do the internal remedies and process. Nothing we can do to prevent
a ccTLD manager from suing.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Nigel: agrees with intent. Cost-neutral. ccTLD managers are not large corporations. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Eberhard: fan of fundamental fairness. Small ccTLD managers cannot afford a US lawyer that charges 500 USD per hour. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Stephen: asks Eberhard to explain on the mailing list what is meant by fundamental fairness</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:36.0pt">
<b><i><span style="color:black">Action item #1:</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span style="color:black">Eberhard to share on the WG-mailing list what he means by fundamental fairness</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">>>> Corporate Governance Fundamentals</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Icann board cannot defer decision making to other bodies. Fiduciary need discussed by several lawyers during IANA transition. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Issue: empower an entity outside of ICANN/PTI to perform the iana function is not possible</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Eberhard: this is an important point. We did not consider this before. Should we inform Council we ran into an issue: we cannot develop a binding policy. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Peter: confusion. Defer decision-making to other bodies: understands. But is the ICANN Board also not able to subject itself to mediation?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Sam: the board can and does subject itself to challenges of its decisions. Outcome of the challenge is important. IRP for instance. Board to be held accountable for every decision it makes. The outcome of that
challenge cannot dictate to the Board what it must do to remedy. Board is expected to act accountably. There is the ability to build in meaningful review or appeal mechanisms. But they need to be supportable and allowable within the corporate governance structure.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Risk: The community could take an IRP declaration and walk in court. The court can compell actions, but the arbitration panel cannot compell actions. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Nigel: urgent.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Bart: this is an important point to be dealt with. To what extent are external reviews feasible, within the sketched parameters? Bart requests Sam to come up with a document in a digestible form, on what is feasible,
to focus the discussions by the WG. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:36.0pt">
<b><i><span style="color:black">Action item #2:</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span style="color:black">Sam Eisner to share on the WG-mailing list the parameters within which the reviews are feasible</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">>>>> Questions</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Q1. “ccNSO members cannot go to court”</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Eberhard: ccNSO members are bound by icann policy. non-ccNSO members are not. While you are a ccNSO member you cannot take icann to court for policy</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Q2. What is anticipated to happen in the mediation? Impacts applicability and cost issues.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Nigel: needs to be more than just a procedural review. Look at fundamental fairness.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Question regarding mediation. How is it developed? </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Sam: understands the value of mediation. But what is the dispute about? There is a value of looking at things procedurally. Asking for a re-look at the info, to make sure the right decision is reached. This is
not really an appeal. It does not create a legal question that you mediate over. What are the questions, beyond asking for the fulsome review?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Eberhard: fundamental fairness. Courts decide to narrow issues: Only award remedies that were asked for. RFC is clear: A panel formed by IFO, takes a decision which is final.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Q3. Who is part of the dispute?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Nigel: difficult to compel government to participate in an out of country area. That is their problem, if they do not want to participate.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Sam: agrees. It is a reality to face</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Nigel: contested delegation. Strict: delegation of new TLDs, change of managers is another bucket to consider.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Sam: that was intended.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">ICANN Board role: confirm the process went as expected. Is there value in a review. Did IANA do what it was supposed to do? Why insert a step before the Board decision. Changing Board role to accepting review?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Stephen: group has a lot to consider. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span style="color:black">Thank you to Sam on behalf of the Working Group. We will follow-up soon.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;text-indent:0cm;mso-list:l5 level1 lfo5;vertical-align:baseline">
<![if !supportLists]><b><span style="color:black"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">5.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span></b><![endif]><b><span style="color:black">Pros / cons various panels (time permitting)<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin:0cm;text-indent:0cm;mso-list:l7 level1 lfo6;vertical-align:baseline">
<![if !supportLists]><b><span style="color:black"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">6.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span></b><![endif]><b><span style="color:black">Next meetings<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span style="color:black">7 April 2021 | 13:00 UTC</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span style="color:black">ccPDP3 RM / ccPDP4 IDN community webinar | 16 April at 08:00 UTC and 16:00 UTC</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span style="color:black">21 April 2021 | 21:00 UTC</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Bart: 4-week gap due to ICANN70. Staff will incorporate the points into the frame document, with the questions. Start discussing them, step by step. Ideas on how to tackle the individual
points. Would be appreciated if you Sam could be present at the next meeting</span><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><b><i><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Action item #3:</span></i></b><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Staff to update the frame document, based on today’s discussion</span><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><br>
<span style="color:black">15 April 2021 | 08:00 AND 16:00 UTC – ccPDP Review Mechanism and ccPDP IDN update to the community webinar</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Content of the ccPDP3-update will be covered at the 7 April meeting: group needs to agree on what to address.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">
<b><i>Action item #4:<o:p></o:p></i></b></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"> Staff and leadership team to start working on the update by ccPDP3-RM at the 15 April webinar.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0cm" start="1" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="color:black;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo9;vertical-align:baseline">
<b><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Closure<o:p></o:p></span></b></li></ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"> </span></b><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Thank you all</span><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Joke Braeken<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">ccNSO Policy Advisor
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">joke.braeken@icann.org<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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