<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default"><font face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif">OK there appears to be plenty of to quote you "...</font><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:'trebuchet ms',sans-serif;color:rgb(38,38,38);font-size:15.3333330154419px;line-height:17.6333332061768px;display:inline"></div><font color="#262626" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size:15.3333330154419px;line-height:17.6333332061768px">misinformation and or misunderstandings." then, and you are welcome to join the next ST-Wp call at 1100 UTC on April 14th to help us clear some of them up... , PLease note however that the language we are addressing (currently in strikethrough) regarding 'Community Veto' has been in our ST document since Singapore meeting as Steve said and the text remains in our documents until it is clear if it (per se) is to be included by the other WP's in the documentation for Public Comment... Please also note that the "...very Specific purposes : budget, bylaws revision, strat plan." you outline remain as such as listed Comunity Powers in our ST documentation and are being 'applied' to relevant Stress Test reviews. Your objections are noted, and will be discussed on our next WP call... In advance of that call however, please look again at the most current v of our ST-Doc at this stage this is it </span></font><a href="https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/52232556/Applying%20Stress%20Tests%20%5BDraft%20v9%5D.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=1427783848000&api=v2" style="color:rgb(59,115,175);text-decoration:none;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13.3333330154419px;line-height:28.6000270843506px">Applying Stress Tests [Draft v9]</a> but any update will be found at <a href="https://community.icann.org/display/acctcrosscomm/ST-WP+Draft+Documents">https://community.icann.org/display/acctcrosscomm/ST-WP+Draft+Documents</a>, where you will see this relates to ST's thatinclude #'s 3&4 wich looks at litigation, new regulation and legislation as well as 9amongst oithers e.g. 19 & 20 issues, and I am sure the WP would welcome for our consideration, any proposed language or text changes you think will better and more clearly articulate the proposed mechanisms that can be tested with these scenarios...</div><div class="gmail_default"><br></div><div class="gmail_default"><br></div><div class="gmail_default"> <a href="http://about.me/cheryl.LangdonOrr" target="_blank" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-size:14px;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(58,169,233);text-decoration:none;line-height:18.2000007629395px"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:'trebuchet ms',sans-serif;display:inline"></div></a></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><a href="http://about.me/cheryl.LangdonOrr" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-size:14px;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(58,169,233);text-decoration:none;line-height:18.2000007629395px" target="_blank"><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-weight:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;border-spacing:0px"><tbody style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-weight:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline"><tr style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-weight:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline"><td align="left" valign="top" style="padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;vertical-align:top;line-height:1"><div style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;vertical-align:baseline;line-height:1"><font color="#674ea7"><i><font face="comic sans ms, sans-serif"><font size="6">C</font><font size="4">heryl </font><font size="6">L</font><font size="4">angdon-</font><font size="6">O</font></font></i><font size="4"><i><font face="comic sans ms, sans-serif">rr ... </font></i><span style="font-family:proxima-nova-1,Proxima-Nova,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-style:inherit">(CLO)</span></font></font></div><div style="font-family:proxima-nova-1,Proxima-Nova,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-style:inherit;margin:3px 0px 0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-weight:inherit;font-size:12px;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(43,130,173)"><br></div><div style="font-family:proxima-nova-1,Proxima-Nova,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-style:inherit;margin:3px 0px 0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-weight:inherit;font-size:12px;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(43,130,173)">about.me/cheryl.LangdonOrr</div></td></tr><tr style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-weight:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline"><td align="left" valign="top" style="padding:8px 0px 0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-style:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:top;line-height:1"><div style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-weight:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;text-align:right;height:4px;background-color:rgb(197,208,224)"><img src="http://d13pix9kaak6wt.cloudfront.net/signature/colorbar.png" alt="Cheryl Langdon-Orr on about.me" width="88" height="4" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-weight: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; float: right; display: block;"></div></td></tr><tr style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-weight:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline"><td style="padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-style:inherit;font-size:0px;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;height:20px"> </td></tr></tbody></table></a><div> </div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On 9 April 2015 at 06:41, Robin Gross <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:robin@ipjustice.org" target="_blank">robin@ipjustice.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div>I'm not sure what you mean by "general community veto" being struck by the stress tests group. There isn't really such a thing that has been proposed.</div><div><br></div><div>The Community veto proposal that I made has always been for very specific purposes: budget, bylaws revision, strat plan. </div><div><span style="color:rgb(38,38,38);font-family:Calibri;font-size:15px;line-height:17px"><br></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(38,38,38);font-family:Calibri;font-size:15px;line-height:17px">According the <a href="https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/52888421/Accountability%20Mechanism%20Template%20WP1-F%20-%20Community%20Veto_v2.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=1426109008000&api=v2" target="_blank">template</a> posted to the website on 11 March:</span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(38,38,38);font-family:Calibri;font-size:15px;line-height:17px"><br></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(38,38,38);font-family:Calibri;font-size:15px;line-height:17px">"This challenge mechanism
would only apply to a narrow set of predetermined high impact board decisions
such as the adoption of the organization’s strategic plan, approval of the
budget, approval of bylaws, etc."</span></div>
<span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.5pt;line-height:115%;font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(38,38,38)"> </span><div><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.5pt;line-height:115%;font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(38,38,38)">So I'm also not sure what is meant by a conversation in Istanbul to narrow the veto proposal down only these things - since it has always been about these specific things.</span></div><div><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.5pt;line-height:115%;font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(38,38,38)"><br></span></div><div><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.5pt;line-height:115%;font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(38,38,38)">I remain in opposition to the stress tests group singling this proposal out for "strikethrough" at this stage. That is not an appropriate role for the stress tests group - nor within its authority. And it seems to be based on <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:'trebuchet ms',sans-serif;display:inline"></div>misinformation and or misunderstandings.</span></div><div><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.5pt;line-height:115%;font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(38,38,38)"><br></span></div><div><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.5pt;line-height:115%;font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(38,38,38)">Thanks,</span></div><div><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.5pt;line-height:115%;font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(38,38,38)">Robin<br></span><div><div class="h5">
<div><br></div><div><br></div><br><div><div>On Apr 8, 2015, at 1:27 PM, Cheryl Langdon-Orr wrote:</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:'trebuchet ms',sans-serif">To be clear Robin the ST-WP is NOT removing anything we have however noted that neither WP1 or 2 has (as yet proposed a general Community Veto) unlike specific veto for Budget etc., that is why the text is strike through in the doc at this stage and not removed, and it will allow us to show it as a mechanism if an when like any others it is actually proposed and agreed to... However what IS important from our running through these various exercises is that should the general Community Veto not end up as a proposed mechanism the ST's it is applied to currently will still not be critically effected...</div><div style="font-family:'trebuchet ms',sans-serif"><br></div><div style="font-family:'trebuchet ms',sans-serif">I am sure Steve will have more to say on this issue as well to help you better understand what the ST-WP role is and what it does... This run and re run through process is important to help us refine the St's as well as recognise any obvious gaps that the other WO's may need to address, particularly with the very little time after the mechanisms and powers of the community etc., are agreed to that will be available for the ST-WP to complete its work in a timely manner pre publication of documentation...</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div><div dir="ltr"><br><a href="http://about.me/cheryl.LangdonOrr" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-size:14px;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(58,169,233);text-decoration:none;line-height:18.2000007629395px" target="_blank"><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-weight:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;border-spacing:0px"><tbody style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-weight:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline"><tr style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-weight:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline"><td align="left" valign="top" style="padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;vertical-align:top;line-height:1"><div style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;vertical-align:baseline;line-height:1"><font color="#674ea7"><i><font face="comic sans ms, sans-serif"><font size="6">C</font><font size="4">heryl </font><font size="6">L</font><font size="4">angdon-</font><font size="6">O</font></font></i><font size="4"><i><font face="comic sans ms, sans-serif">rr ... </font></i><span style="font-family:proxima-nova-1,Proxima-Nova,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-style:inherit">(CLO)</span></font></font></div><div style="font-family:proxima-nova-1,Proxima-Nova,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-style:inherit;margin:3px 0px 0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-weight:inherit;font-size:12px;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(43,130,173)"><br></div><div style="font-family:proxima-nova-1,Proxima-Nova,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-style:inherit;margin:3px 0px 0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-weight:inherit;font-size:12px;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(43,130,173)">about.me/cheryl.LangdonOrr</div></td></tr><tr style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-weight:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline"><td align="left" valign="top" style="padding:8px 0px 0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-style:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:top;line-height:1"><div style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-weight:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;text-align:right;min-height:4px;background-color:rgb(197,208,224)"><img src="http://d13pix9kaak6wt.cloudfront.net/signature/colorbar.png" alt="Cheryl Langdon-Orr on about.me" width="88" height="4" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-weight: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; float: right; display: block;"></div></td></tr><tr style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-weight:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline"><td style="padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-style:inherit;font-size:0px;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;height:20px"> </td></tr></tbody></table></a><div> </div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On 9 April 2015 at 06:17, Robin Gross <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:robin@ipjustice.org" target="_blank">robin@ipjustice.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">There is no authority for removing the community veto proposal at this stage. I'm not sure how the stress tests group is proposing to eliminate proposals like this. It seems to be an over-reach of this group - this sub-group is not a gate-keeper to shut-down proposals that show to have no problems in operation. The memos coming back from the legal advisors all say vetos are possible and probably desirable in some fashion.<span><font color="#888888"><div><br></div></font></span><div><span><font color="#888888">Robin<br><div><br></div></font></span><div><br><div><div><div><div>On Apr 8, 2015, at 10:34 AM, Steve DelBianco wrote:</div><br></div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div>
<div style="word-wrap:break-word;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:16px;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<div>
<div>Thanks, Jonathan. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Per our discussion today’s stress test WP call, we want to inform the rest of CCWG about this. Here’s a draft for your consideration:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>When ST-WP applies the stress tests to proposed mechanisms, we look at all proposed measures that are under active consideration in the CCWG. (Those are the measures cited in the right column of each stress test). </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>When the CCWG and CWG package their proposals for public comment, the ST-WP can then re-apply the stress tests to what is actually proposed.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Until then, the ST-WP is monitoring discussions in WP1 and WP2 and wanted to flag two proposed measures that have implications for stress testing. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>First, we note that the ‘Community Veto’ measure first proposed in Singapore seems not to be under active consideration in WP1, and is unlikely to make the cut for our first public comment document. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As initially proposed, a community veto would enable a supermajority of the community representatives to veto a board decision, putting it back in the hands of the board. At the Sunday Istanbul meeting, a sub-team proposed limiting the community veto
only to a list of specified board decisions. Further discussion revealed reservations about allowing community veto to block decisions of the board without citing standards or principles, and attention turned to enhancing other community challenge powers,
such as Reconsideration and IRP.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In our latest draft of Applying Stress Tests, we applied a strike-thru to the community veto mechanism in the 8 stress tests that had cited the measure. On today’s call, we concluded that the absence of a community veto would not in itself flip any stress
tests from ‘Adequate’ to ‘Inadequate’, since the reconsideration and IRP measures are available to the community. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So we are alerting the CCWG to this situation, although we do not believe stress testing reveals that community veto must be further developed as long as other challenge mechanisms are available. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Second, we note that 6 stress tests anticipated another community power that may also fail to make the cut for first public comment. As explained in the email below from Jonathan Zuck, a proposal from the Frankfurt meeting would allow the community to
force ICANN to implement a previously-approved Review Team Recommendation or consensus policy. Another suggested power would allow the community to force ICANN to respond to formal advice from an Advisory Committee (SSAC, ALAC, GAC, RSSAC).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We note that several stress tests would likely flip from ’Adequate’ to ‘Inadequate’ if the community lacked any new powers to force ICANN to consider and respond to formal advice from an Advisory Committee. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It’s possible that WP1 could address this concern by developing a power for the community to force ICANN board to acknowledge and respond to AC advice, since that board response could trigger community challenge mechanisms such as Reconsideration or IRP.
This possibility requires some advice from legal experts, as described in Jonathan’s note below. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In conclusion, we believe that CCWG WP1 could adopt the ATRT2 recommendation for a bylaws change along these lines:</div>
<div><p style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,'Apple Color Emoji','Segoe UI Emoji',NotoColorEmoji,'Segoe UI Symbol','Android Emoji',EmojiSymbols;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
9.1. ICANN Bylaws Article XI should be amended to include the following language to mandate Board Response to Advisory Committee Formal Advice: <i>The ICANN Board will respond in a timely manner to formal advice from all Advisory Committees, explaining what
action it took and the rationale for doing so.</i></p>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>—</div>
<div>
<div>Steve DelBianco</div>
<div>Executive Director</div>
<div>NetChoice</div>
<div><a href="http://www.netchoice.org/" target="_blank">http://www.NetChoice.org</a> and <a href="http://blog.netchoice.org/" target="_blank">http://blog.netchoice.org</a></div>
<div><a href="tel:%2B1.703.615.6206" value="+17036156206" target="_blank">+1.703.615.6206</a></div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span>
<div style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:12pt;text-align:left;color:black;border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;padding:3pt 0in 0in;border-top-color:rgb(181,196,223)">
<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>Jonathan Zuck<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Wednesday, April 8, 2015 at 9:05 AM<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>"<a href="mailto:ccwg-accountability4@icann.org" target="_blank">ccwg-accountability4@icann.org</a>"<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>[ST-WP] Spurring Board Action<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr" style="outline:none;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,'Apple Color Emoji','Segoe UI Emoji',NotoColorEmoji,'Segoe UI Symbol','Android Emoji',EmojiSymbols;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<div dir="ltr" style="outline:none;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,'Apple Color Emoji','Segoe UI Emoji',NotoColorEmoji,'Segoe UI Symbol','Android Emoji',EmojiSymbols;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><div>Greetings!</div><div>On the call this morning, we had a discussion of some stress tests that risk falling through the cracks. Cheryl asked me to briefly summarize the portion of the discussion dealing with stress tests which involved board
<i>inaction</i>. You might recall that Alan Greenberg originally brought up the notion of "compelling the board to take action" and there are several of the existing stress tests that highlight the need for that capability on the part of the community. Specifically, </div><div><span style="font-size:12pt"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">ST 11: “force ICANN to implement a recommendation arising from an AOC review, namely SSR"</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">ST 17: "force ICANN to respond to recommendations from advisory committees such as SSAC."</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</div><div><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">ST 3,4, 20, 22: “force ICANN to implement a consensus policy or recommendation of an AoC review”</span><span style="font-size:12pt"> </span></div><div><span style="font-size:12pt"><br>
</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12pt">Cheryl brought up the fact that 11 and 17 had piqued the interest of the CWG so we focused on those two. Stress test 11 was inspired by the recent breach at ICANN and the inability of the community to extract information about
the breach. Without the ability to spur action, that stress test would fail.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12pt"><br>
</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12pt">Stress test 17 was about recommendations that are ignored by the board. One example we have used for some time is on the issue of Name Collisions and certs where a fairly large outcry on the part of the community was required
to spur action a year ago. Another example, near and dear to the ALAC is dotless domains where there was very specific advice from SSAC as well as consensus concern and the board was slow to respond.</span></div><div><br>
</div><div>Avri brought up recommendation 9 of the ATRT with respect to advice which dictates the board respond to advice in a timely manner:</div><div><br>
</div><div>9.1. ICANN Bylaws Article XI should be amended to include the following language to mandate Board Response to Advisory Committee Formal Advice: </div><div><i>The ICANN Board will respond in a timely manner to formal advice from all Advisory Committees, explaining what action it took and the rationale for doing so.</i><br>
</div><div><i><br>
</i></div><div>The question then arose whether a board "response" would be sufficient to trigger the other review mechanisms currently under consideration by WP2 so it was resolved to discuss that with Becky and her team. Perhaps it would be enough to dictate that the
trigger mechanism for a review is a decision or response from the board. If not, we might need revisit a specific community power to induce the board to vote on a recommendation so that the vote can act as a trigger for further review if necessary.</div><div><br>
</div><div>Cheryl, I hope I have sufficiently stressed everyone out with the possibility of board inaction. Feel free to ask questions or raise issues I have forgotten. I'll clip the mp3 for the topic if that's helpful to folks.</div><div>Jonathan</div><div><br>
</div><div><br>
</div>
<div>
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