[Acct-Legal] URGENT: Call tonight 40min

Fri May 1 21:26:33 UTC 2015

Dear all, 
I¹m writing on behalf of Leon. Please confirm ASAP if you are available for
a call tonight either in 40min (6PM ET / 22:00 UTC) or at 8PM ET / midnight
UTC. 
We will need to schedule immediately if the firms and subteam are available.
Thank you
Grace

From:  Grace Abuhamad <grace.abuhamad at icann.org>
Date:  Friday, May 1, 2015 at 3:08 PM
To:  ccwg-accountability5 <ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org>
Cc:  stevedelbianco <sdelbianco at netchoice.org>, Thomas Rickert
<thomas at rickert.net>, Cheryl Langdon-Orr <langdonorr at gmail.com>, Brenda
Brewer <brenda.brewer at icann.org>
Subject:  Need confirmation Re: [Acct-Legal] Fwd: The need for more info on
Uninc Assos

Leon ‹ 
Please confirm whether or not you would like to host this meeting today at
22:00 UTC (6PM Eastern). I will need to know within the hour in order for us
to set up the teleconferencing services.
Thank you, 
Grace

From:  ccwg-accountability5 <ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org>
Reply-To:  ccwg-accountability5 <ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org>
Date:  Friday, May 1, 2015 at 1:18 PM
To:  ccwg-accountability5 <ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org>,
ccwg-accountability5 <ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org>
Cc:  stevedelbianco <sdelbianco at netchoice.org>, Thomas Rickert
<thomas at rickert.net>, Cheryl Langdon-Orr <langdonorr at gmail.com>
Subject:  Re: [Acct-Legal] Fwd: The need for more info on Uninc Assos

If 6pm eastern works on the Legal Sub-Team side please have ICANN staff
circulate a calendar invite.

Sent with Good (www.good.com)

From: ccwg-accountability5-bounces at icann.org on behalf of List for the work
of CCWG-Accountability Legal SubTeam
Sent: Friday, May 01, 2015 12:10:50 PM
To: 'ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org'
Cc: stevedelbianco; Thomas Rickert; Cheryl Langdon-Orr
Subject: Re: [Acct-Legal] Fwd: The need for more info on Uninc Assos

Counsel have been working on revisions to the questions posed and answered
on April 23 concerning UAs, adding a description of the proposed use of UAs,
responding to Chris Disspain¹s question, and attaching a sample of Articles
of Association.  Sidley has Adler drafts for review as of last night.  I
think the revised document will be helpful to address the concerns raised in
this thread.  I suggest that we get that to you before any call.

I can do a call at 3:30 PM and later today.

Rosemary

From: ccwg-accountability5-bounces at icann.org
[mailto:ccwg-accountability5-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of List for the
work of CCWG-Accountability Legal SubTeam
Sent: Friday, May 01, 2015 7:46 AM
To: ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org
Cc: stevedelbianco; Thomas Rickert; Cheryl Langdon-Orr
Subject: Re: [Acct-Legal] Fwd: The need for more info on Uninc Assos

I can participate this afternoon and evening (NY time).  The weekend is
basically shot.  Tomorrow is difficult after 11 am New York time as I have a
birthday brunch with my son followed by a birthday party for my nephew, and
travel to/from both.  Sunday morning I have an 8:30 am flight to San Diego
for the International Trademark Association Annual Meeting.

Greg

On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 8:57 AM, List for the work of CCWG-Accountability
Legal SubTeam <ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org> wrote:

Thanks David. 

Jordan, Mathieu, Thomas, Cheryl, Steve, Becky?

Saludos,

León

Enviado desde el móvil.

Errores tipográficos son culpa del tecladito y mis dedos gordos.

El may 1, 2015, a las 7:36 AM, List for the work of CCWG-Accountability
Legal SubTeam <ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org> escribió:
> 
> I could participate at 6pm US eastern time today and most of weekend.
>  
> David McAuley
>  
>  
> 
> From:ccwg-accountability5-bounces at icann.org
> [mailto:ccwg-accountability5-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of List for the work
> of CCWG-Accountability Legal SubTeam
> Sent: Friday, May 01, 2015 8:19 AM
> To: ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org
> Cc: Thomas Rickert; stevedelbianco; Cheryl Langdon-Orr
> Subject: Re: [Acct-Legal] Fwd: The need for more info on Uninc Assos
>  
> 
> Thanks Holly. 
> 
>  
> 
> I believe today would be difficult but would like to hear from others as to
> which time would also work for them.
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks 
> 
> Saludos,
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> León
> 
>  
> 
> Enviado desde el móvil.
> 
> Errores tipográficos son culpa del tecladito y mis dedos gordos.
> 
> 
> El may 1, 2015, a las 6:53 AM, List for the work of CCWG-Accountability Legal
> SubTeam <ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org> escribió:
>> 
>> Hi Leon, let me check with Rosemary.   Are you looking to do this later
>> today?  We could potentially do this in the late afternoon.  Around 6
>> eastern.  Holly 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent with Good (www.good.com
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.good.com&d=AwMGaQ&c=
>> Od00qP2XTg0tXf_H69-T2w&r=1-1w8mU_eFprE2Nn9QnYf01XIV88MOwkXwHYEbF2Y_8&m=j8IPaJ
>> 0Pesd_6Ud4-cODZBxaDfHjWlzliHGi3IZ0QV8&s=BWwAt_qTuC1ei4ZU4uDWr4Yu6Sz5oUyTFTVoF
>> cenYmw&e=> )
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> From:ccwg-accountability5-bounces at icann.org on behalf of List for the work of
>> CCWG-Accountability Legal SubTeam
>> Sent: Friday, May 01, 2015 06:29:18 AM
>> To: ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org; Thomas Rickert; Jordan Carter; Mathieu
>> Weill; Greg Shatan; stevedelbianco; Cheryl Langdon-Orr; Becky Burr
>> Subject: [Acct-Legal] Fwd: The need for more info on Uninc Assos
>> 
>> Counsel,
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> When would you be able to hold a call to help clarify the doubts around UAs
>> interaction and general panorama on them?
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> A one hour conference should be enough I think.
>> 
>> Best regards , 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> León
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Enviado desde el móvil.
>> 
>> Errores tipográficos son culpa del tecladito y mis dedos gordos.
>> 
>> 
>> Inicio del mensaje reenviado:
>>> 
>>> De: Jordan Carter <jordan at internetnz.net.nz>
>>> Fecha: 1 de mayo de 2015, 5:36:41 AM CDT
>>> Para: Mathieu Weill <mathieu.weill at afnic.fr>
>>> Cc: Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc at gmail.com>, Thomas Rickert
>>> <rickert at anwaelte.de>, León Felipe Sánchez Ambía <leonfelipe at sanchez.mx>,
>>> Becky Burr <Becky.Burr at neustar.biz>, Cheryl Langdon-Orr
>>> <langdonorr at gmail.com>, stevedelbianco <sdelbianco at netchoice.org>,
>>> ACCT-Staff <acct-staff at icann.org>
>>> Asunto: Re: The need for more info on Uninc Assos
>>> 
>>> It isn't about questions, Mathieu. It is about painting the picture of the
>>> reality of how this would actually work.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> I'm starting to think the best way to resolve that would be a half hour
>>> teleconference between us and the legal people. To flesh out how the model
>>> would work and write it down.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> J.
>>> 
>>> On Friday, 1 May 2015, Mathieu Weill <mathieu.weill at afnic.fr> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> I support as well. I'll leave interaction with lawyers to leon but we would
>>> certainly help by starting to point out the questions the community would
>>> need answers to ?
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Jordan how would you frame them ?
>>> 
>>> Mathieu Weill
>>> 
>>> ---------------
>>> 
>>> Depuis mon mobile, désolé pour le style
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Le 1 mai 2015 à 06:12, Jordan Carter <jordan at internetnz.net.nz> a écrit :
>>>> 
>>>> That's just one example...
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Leon, how quickly could we do this?
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> J 
>>>> 
>>>> On Friday, 1 May 2015, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I agree 100%.  The overarching criticism of the first CWG report was that
>>>> it was "too complex" and "lacked detail."  Initially I couldn't understand
>>>> this criticism, because these appeared mutually exclusive.  I've come to
>>>> understand that lack of detail leads to lack of clarity and lack of clarity
>>>> makes it difficult to  grasp the concepts, and concepts that can't quite be
>>>> grasped appear complex.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Add to this the tendency of some (many?) in the community to insert
>>>> dynamite into any crack in a proposal they don't favor and then point to
>>>> the impending explosion....
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> For a more direct example, look at the recent exchanges involving Chris
>>>> Disspain, Jordan and myself.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Greg
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 11:33 PM, Jordan Carter <jordan at internetnz.net.nz>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi team (Co-chairs, Rapporteurs, ACCT staff and Greg)
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> I feel like I am beating my head against a wall on this but: WE NEED to
>>>> present more information URGENTLY about the unincorporated association
>>>> concept.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> My request would be that we ask the lawyers to add a page of "flavour" and
>>>> summary about the UAs to the 23 April memo and maybe add a couple of more
>>>> basic questions people might ask, and turn it into a UA Outline/Q&A
>>>> document.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Why do I ask this? You can see from the discussions in the group both in
>>>> calls and on the list that uncertainty around these really isn't helpful.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> The 23 April memo from Sidley/Adler does NOT set out a coherent picture of
>>>> how these associations would "look and feel". Instead it responds to a
>>>> bunch of quite specific questions, most of which are helpful, but which
>>>> together only form part of the picture.
>>>> (https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/52890082/Sidley-Adler%20-
>>>> %20Memo%20%28Unincorporated%20Associations%29.pdf?version=1&modificationDat
>>>> e=1430069090000&api=v2
>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_d
>>>> ownload_attachments_52890082_Sidley-2DAdler-2520-2D-2520Memo-2520-2528Uninc
>>>> orporated-2520Associations-2529.pdf-3Fversion-3D1-26modificationDate-3D1430
>>>> 069090000-26api-3Dv2&d=AwMFaQ&c=Od00qP2XTg0tXf_H69-T2w&r=1-1w8mU_eFprE2Nn9Q
>>>> nYf01XIV88MOwkXwHYEbF2Y_8&m=RvmiUE-YoxF3IOA03X7eprk0HqYGpxIs6K1aKEw8MA4&s=s
>>>> 16V25nrICJ9moKAbzrtSXW5lyJK_Jr_yesKZ__g8r4&e=> )
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> I am absolutely convinced that we have to be really really clear and open
>>>> about what these associations would do, what they would look like, how they
>>>> would sit alongside the SOs and ACs, not envelope them.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> In the absence of clarity from us on this point, we are simply asking for
>>>> confusion or making space for misdirection and F.U.D.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Because I am not from California, I can't write this myself.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Thoughts?
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Jordan
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> -- 
>>>> 
>>>> Jordan Carter
>>>> 
>>>> Chief Executive
>>>> InternetNZ
>>>> 
>>>> 04 495 2118 (office) | +64 21 442 649 <tel:%2B64%2021%20442%20649>  (mob)
>>>> jordan at internetnz.net.nz
>>>> Skype: jordancarter
>>>> 
>>>> A better world through a better Internet
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Jordan Carter
>>>> Chief Executive, InternetNZ
>>>> +64-21-442-649 <tel:%2B64-21-442-649>  | jordan at internetnz.net.nz
>>>> 
>>>> Sent on the run, apologies for brevity
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Jordan Carter
>>> Chief Executive, InternetNZ
>>> +64-21-442-649 <tel:%2B64-21-442-649>  | jordan at internetnz.net.nz
>>> 
>>> Sent on the run, apologies for brevity
>> 
>>  
>> 
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