<div dir="ltr">A subsidiary question to tink about:<div><br></div><div>If the UA's membership is say the Council members of the SO, and one of those members or more goes "rogue", how can the SO remove them, as they are the members and the SO still has no corporate existence itself to act as the member.</div><div><br></div><div>Can the UA be bound to act in respect of its membership by the SO? In other words, could the rules say "The members of this UA are those persons nominated by the SO, and if the SO deems them no longer members, then they are no longer members" or words to that effect?</div><div><br></div><div>cheers</div><div>JOrdan</div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 2 May 2015 at 11:19, List for the work of CCWG-Accountability Legal SubTeam <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ccwg-accountability5@icann.org" target="_blank">ccwg-accountability5@icann.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Agree generally with Greg.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">HOLLY</span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">J.</span></b><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
</span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">GREGORY</span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><br>
Partner<br>
<br>
</span><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Sidley Austin LLP</span></b><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><br>
</span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a href="tel:%2B1.212.839.5853" value="+12128395853" target="_blank">+1.212.839.5853</a><br>
<a href="mailto:holly.gregory@sidley.com" title="Click to send email to Gregory, Holly" target="_blank">holly.gregory@sidley.com</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:ccwg-accountability5-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">ccwg-accountability5-bounces@icann.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:ccwg-accountability5-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">ccwg-accountability5-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>List for the work of CCWG-Accountability Legal SubTeam<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 01, 2015 7:11 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Chris Disspain<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:ccwg-accountability5@icann.org" target="_blank">ccwg-accountability5@icann.org</a>; CCWG Accountability<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Acct-Legal] [CCWG-ACCT] Fwd: Revised memo on Unincorporated Associations, with sample Articles of Association attached<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><div class="h5">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Chris,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">The UA is composed of the members of the SO/AC or some subset thereof, and the bylaws of the UA would dictate that it should follow the direction of the SO/AC and
that the members of the UA have no leeway to deviate from that direction. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">If the SO/AC has all the same members as the UA, then there is no possibility that the UA could act differently from the SO/AC. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">So we would need to look at a situation where the members of the UA are a subset of the members of the SO/AC. This breaks down, most likely, to two scenarios. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">In the first scenario, a small group of members of the SO/AC are selected by the SO/AC to act as the members of the UA. I would assume, like most elected leaders
and representatives, that those chosen would be relatively well-regarded, trustworthy, longstanding, active contributors to that SO/AC (consider,e.g., GNSO councilors or SO/AC leadership as examples), and that they would indicate that they understood the nature
of the role as part of the selection process. As an example, let's assume that the members of the GNSO's UA were the Chair of the GNSO and the Chairs of each SG. Your hypothesis is that these 5 worthies would somehow "go rogue" and hijack the GNSO's UA,
violate the bylaws of the UA, and refuse to follow directions from the GNSO (which would undoubtedly be quite public).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">In the second scenario, a large number (but not all) of the members of the (e.g.) GNSO become members of the GNSO's UA. As in the first scenario, they would acknowledge
and agree as a condition of membership the nature of their role and the role of the UA. Again, your hypothesis is that this mass of GNSO members would somehow break from the GNSO and the SGs that they are members of, and act in violation of the UAs bylaws
and their agreement to act in a limited capacity.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">In response (either way), the GNSO would have removed these "rogues" as members of the UA and replaced them with a crew that would act in accordance with the bylaws
and the direction of the GNSO. In all likelihood, they would be removed from the GNSO as well. So your hypothetical further assumes that, in spite of this gross violation of the UA's bylaws and a public declaration that the members were being removed and
replaced and that the invalid actions were being reversed, the other UAs (and/or ICANN) would continue to recognize the invalid actions of the rogue deposed members and not the actions of the replacement members acting in accordance with the public instructions
of the GNSO.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">I suppose there is a technical possibility that this could occur, but I fail to see it as a practical possibility. Furthermore, if this has happened, ICANN and the
multistakeholder model must have become so incredibly broken that an attempt to hijack UA would not be our most significant concerns.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">That said, it's appropriate to clarify the answer to your question from a legal standpoint as well as a practical one and we'll look to Sidley and Adler & Colvin
to help us with that.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Greg<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 6:28 PM, Chris Disspain <<a href="mailto:ceo@auda.org.au" target="_blank">ceo@auda.org.au</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Thanks.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">I'll assume it attempts to. Here's what is says:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">"The control mechanism for an SO/AC over its unincorporated association could be essentially the same as whatever control mechanisms currently exist to ensure that the SO/ACs do what their participants collectively
decide they should do. <b>For example, if an SO/AC has a chair, that chair could be empowered and directed by the participants in the SO/AC to cause the unincorporated association of that SO/AC to act as directed by the SO/AC to exercise membership or designator
rights.</b> If the chair refused, that chair could presumably be subjected to discipline or removed and replaced under existing procedures within the SO or AC, just as if the chair had refused to take any other action as directed by the SO/AC. If existing
control mechanisms within SO/ACs are insufficient, the SO/AC could modify them to address the weakness."<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">I refer to the text in bold. I agree. However this does not answer the question, "and what power of enforcement over the UA does the SO or AC have if the UA refuses to act as directed or if it starts to act on its
own behalf without direction?".<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in">
This is and has been the point I have been making for the last day or so. <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Chris Disspain | Chief Executive Officer<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">.au Domain Administration Ltd<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">T: <a href="tel:%2B61%203%208341%204111" target="_blank">
+61 3 8341 4111</a> | F: <a href="tel:%2B61%203%208341%204112" target="_blank">+61 3 8341 4112</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">E: <a href="mailto:ceo@auda.org.au" target="_blank">
ceo@auda.org.au</a> | W: <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.auda.org.au&d=AwMFaQ&c=Od00qP2XTg0tXf_H69-T2w&r=1-1w8mU_eFprE2Nn9QnYf01XIV88MOwkXwHYEbF2Y_8&m=m4hhPkmciRfWDIZI9AOAxz3ImC_IwVdQVggFwiZ92KY&s=KOvxK-iaQWwilK98zpYQHuveTyWZyxErN5oYli8HpbA&e=" target="_blank">
www.auda.org.au</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">auDA - Australia's Domain Name Administrator<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in">
<br>
On 2 May 2015, at 08:20, León Felipe Sánchez Ambía <<a href="mailto:leonfelipe@sanchez.mx" target="_blank">leonfelipe@sanchez.mx</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Hi Chris!<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">I'm sorry but can't tell because I'm on the road and haven't had the chance to go through the document but I forwarded it because I didn't want to hold it. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><br>
Cheers!<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">León<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Enviado desde el móvil.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Errores tipográficos son culpa del tecladito y mis dedos gordos. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in">
<br>
El may 1, 2015, a las 3:17 PM, Chris Disspain <<a href="mailto:ceo@auda.org.au" target="_blank">ceo@auda.org.au</a>> escribió:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Thanks León.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in">
Jus to check, are the changes meant to deal with the question I asked the other day and have been exchanging with Greg and Jordan about? Or is that being answered separately?<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Chris Disspain | Chief Executive Officer<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">.au Domain Administration Ltd<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">T: <a href="tel:%2B61%203%208341%204111" target="_blank">
+61 3 8341 4111</a> | F: <a href="tel:%2B61%203%208341%204112" target="_blank">+61 3 8341 4112</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">E: <a href="mailto:ceo@auda.org.au" target="_blank">
ceo@auda.org.au</a> | W: <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.auda.org.au&d=AwMFaQ&c=Od00qP2XTg0tXf_H69-T2w&r=1-1w8mU_eFprE2Nn9QnYf01XIV88MOwkXwHYEbF2Y_8&m=m4hhPkmciRfWDIZI9AOAxz3ImC_IwVdQVggFwiZ92KY&s=KOvxK-iaQWwilK98zpYQHuveTyWZyxErN5oYli8HpbA&e=" target="_blank">
www.auda.org.au</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">auDA - Australia's Domain Name Administrator<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in">
<br>
On 2 May 2015, at 08:10, León Felipe Sánchez Ambía <<a href="mailto:leonfelipe@sanchez.mx" target="_blank">leonfelipe@sanchez.mx</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Hi all,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">An update from the lawyers with regards to UAs<br>
<br>
Best regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">León<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Enviado desde el móvil.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Errores tipográficos son culpa del tecladito y mis dedos gordos. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in">
<br>
Inicio del mensaje reenviado:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in">
<b>De:</b> List for the work of CCWG-Accountability Legal SubTeam <<a href="mailto:ccwg-accountability5@icann.org" target="_blank">ccwg-accountability5@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Fecha:</b> 1 de mayo de 2015, 3:03:54 PM PDT<br>
<b>Para:</b> "<a href="mailto:ccwg-accountability5@icann.org" target="_blank">ccwg-accountability5@icann.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:ccwg-accountability5@icann.org" target="_blank">ccwg-accountability5@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> "Sidley ICANN CCWG \(<a href="mailto:sidleyicannccwg@sidley.com" target="_blank">sidleyicannccwg@sidley.com</a>\)" <<a href="mailto:sidleyicannccwg@sidley.com" target="_blank">sidleyicannccwg@sidley.com</a>>, ICANN-Adler <<a href="mailto:ICANN@adlercolvin.com" target="_blank">ICANN@adlercolvin.com</a>><br>
<b>Asunto:</b> <b>[Acct-Legal] Revised memo on Unincorporated Associations, with sample Articles of Association attached</b><br>
<b>Responder a:</b> <a href="mailto:ccwg-accountability5@icann.org" target="_blank">
ccwg-accountability5@icann.org</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Dear Legal Sub-team:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">We attach a revised version of the unincorporated associations memo from April 23, 2015, which now has a description of the proposed uses of unincorporated associations in ICANN’s governance structure,
and 2 new questions received since April 23, as well as some clarifying edits to prior answers to questions. We hope this is useful for the upcoming call, and perhaps as an annex to the CCWG Draft Proposal. A redline against the April 23 version will be
provided shortly.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Rosemary</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" width="432" style="width:323.7pt;margin-left:.5in">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width="261" style="width:195.45pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Book Antiqua","serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Book Antiqua","serif"">Rosemary E. Fei</span><br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Book Antiqua","serif"">Adler & Colvin</span><br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Book Antiqua","serif"">235 Montgomery Street, Suite 1220</span><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><REVISED memo on unincorporated associations (00673349-4xA3536).docx><u></u><u></u></p>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr">Jordan Carter<br><br>Chief Executive <br><b>InternetNZ</b><br><br>04 495 2118 (office) | +64 21 442 649 (mob)<br><a href="mailto:jordan@internetnz.net.nz" target="_blank">jordan@internetnz.net.nz</a> <br>Skype: jordancarter<br><br><i>A better world through a better Internet </i><br><br></div></div></div></div>
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