[Ccwg-auctionproceeds] For your review - updated proposal for individual appeals mechanism

Alan Greenberg alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca
Mon Aug 19 16:21:45 UTC 2019


My recollection is that we were pretty clear that the existing accountabilty mechanisms would not apply, and that it is possible that a fundamental Bylaw change would be required to do that.

Alan
--
Sent from my mobile. Please excuse brevity and typos.

On August 19, 2019 12:05:18 PM EDT, Becky Burr <BBurr at hwglaw.com> wrote:

It will be particularly important that the final report be clear that the CCWG does not believe that ICANN’s existing accountability mechanisms (ombuds, Reconsiderations, or IRP) should be available to challenge an adverse grant decision.  Those mechanisms are not well suited to this kind of situation.

From: Ccwg-auctionproceeds <ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces at icann.org> on behalf of Judith Hellerstein <judith at jhellerstein.com>
Date: Saturday, August 17, 2019 at 9:14 PM
To: Erika Mann <erika at erikamann.com>
Cc: John R Levine <johnl at taugh.com>, CCWG Auction Proceeds <ccwg-auctionproceeds at icann.org>
Subject: Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] For your review - updated proposal for individual appeals mechanism

Hi Erika
I agree as well. Sylvia made some excellent points. While I like the idea of an appeals process I can see that it adds an extra layer of complexity to the grant process

Best
Judith
Sent from my iPhone
Judith at jhellerstein.com<mailto:Judith at jhellerstein.com>
Skype ID:Judithhellerstein

On Aug 17, 2019, at 7:23 AM, Erika Mann <erika at erikamann.com<mailto:erika at erikamann.com>> wrote:
I believe we have an agreement ... though we had such an agreement before but then Sam thought we should reconsider our understanding ... hopefully we can put this item to rest now.

Erika
Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 17, 2019, at 12:21 PM, Marilyn Cade <marilynscade at hotmail.com<mailto:marilynscade at hotmail.com>> wrote:
Wow, are we seeing "general" support for no appeal mechanism?

Perhaps we can put this sort of to 'bed'?

Add something in our documentation - discussed extensively; considered; recommend that an appeal mechanism is not needed, and would add unneeded complexity, and include a paragraph of explanation, so that in the public comment process, the community commenting feels fully informed?
________________________________
From: Ccwg-auctionproceeds <ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces at icann.org<mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces at icann.org>> on behalf of Vanda Scartezini <vanda at scartezini.org<mailto:vanda at scartezini.org>>
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2019 12:12 AM
To: Rudolph Daniel <rudi.daniel at gmail.com<mailto:rudi.daniel at gmail.com>>
Cc: John R Levine <johnl at taugh.com<mailto:johnl at taugh.com>>; CCWG Auction Proceeds <ccwg-auctionproceeds at icann.org<mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds at icann.org>>
Subject: Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] For your review - updated proposal for individual appeals mechanism

Make sense to me too. I was against an appeal as I said early on since that is the way all R&D grants here works and the independent panel and their report make the not appeal alternative accountable to the society. Not having appellation makes the process quicker allowing the start up of the projects while it makes sense due the development of the technology in the ICT field as is the case of DNS related issues

Vanda Scartezini
Sent from my iPad
Sorry for any typos and misspellings

On 17 Aug 2019, at 00:02, Rudolph Daniel <rudi.daniel at gmail.com<mailto:rudi.daniel at gmail.com>> wrote:
"That being said, grant applicants, both accepted and rejected, should be requested to fill out a survey with their input being used for the annul review of the program."
End quote.

This makes a lot of sense to me, given the the independent nature of the grant process being tabled.
The strength of the selection process should be of sufficient integrity to forgo the additional cost of an appeals procedure which could be quite detrimental to the expected outcome and purpose of the grants.
My view currently is to stay away from appeal procedures of all kinds; and fine tune the mechanisms to ensure that grant awards stay well within pre established control lines. There are already review mechanisms, designed to keep the process in line with ICANN's mission and purpose. I am thinking that in the context of an independent body, and the relative size of the fund, and the advice of others on this d list, no appeal process is going to be "very light weight" .

I think, we should keep it out of the equation if at all possible. Each funding call should be drafted with this in mind...
RD







On Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 22:21 Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca<mailto:alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca>> wrote:
I agree with John. I do not think that we should have an appeal
process. That being said, if we MUST have one it should:

- be VERY light weight;
- there must be VERY tight time requirements for submission
- go to the manager of the selection group with the final result being final;
- the final result being the project is accepted or still rejected.
Specifically, there should be no "reason" given (as has recently been
suggested).

Note that we may end up rejecting perfectly good projects. But they
may not, in the view of the evaluators, have a sufficiently high
benefit:cost ration. Or we may simply have used up all of our funds
for that period on projects that were better!

As John mentions, cost is an issue. If there is an appeal process,
and the cost is minimal or zero, it will be used by pretty much
everyone who is rejected, significantly increasing the cost of the
program with little positive outcome.

That being said, grant applicants, both accepted and rejected, should
be requested to fill out a survey with their input being used for the
annul review of the program.

Alan


At 16/08/2019 09:46 PM, John R Levine wrote:
Are we going to just ignore the input from people who actually run
such grant making organizations @Sylvia
Cadena<mailto:sylvia at apnic.net<mailto:sylvia at apnic.net>> has weighed in on this with some
factual statements that we seem to have just glossed over?

I am a trustee of the Internet Society, where we have recently set up
an actual captive grant making foundation with no appeal process, so
no, we are not. It's a bad idea.

R's,
John

At 15/08/2019 09:32 AM, John R Levine wrote:
Following on from the last CCWG call and the input received on the individual
appeals mechanism, please find attached an updated proposal for your review.
Please share any comments, concerns or suggestions you may have in advance of
the next CCWG meeting which has been scheduled for Wednesday 21 August.

It's OK to have an appeal process but this leaves some rather important
questions open, e.g.

* Who pays for the appeal?  Is it like UDRP where the parties split
the cost, or
is it all ICANN?

* I expect that no matter what we say, most appeals will in fact be applicants
who are unhappy that they didn't get funded.  Is there a way to dispose of
obviously bogus appeals efficiently?  Obviously bogus means things like not
identifying any process failure other than saying no.

Regards,
John Levine, johnl at iecc.com<mailto:johnl at iecc.com>, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet
for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fjl.ly&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf0335de880ab40abc37608d722c929a2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637016119694986707&sdata=V%2Bl7mZ3kPaK7iXq2Fs0CwUh%2BHrGQyWPJdLko%2BS9uoPw%3D&reserved=0>
________________________________
Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list
Ccwg-auctionproceeds at icann.org<mailto:Ccwg-auctionproceeds at icann.org>
https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmm.icann.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fccwg-auctionproceeds&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf0335de880ab40abc37608d722c929a2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637016119694996718&sdata=Ixv7Nn7h%2BBb9evLTSVEP6jzYTG4KX5stLTk8Ma%2F%2Fj1w%3D&reserved=0>
________________________________
By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of
your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list
accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy
(https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.icann.org%2Fprivacy%2Fpolicy&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf0335de880ab40abc37608d722c929a2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637016119695006723&sdata=kRiYGP3HWbBl4zenJs4jsj32EHBVi%2FFl6BnrGAv%2FhdQ%3D&reserved=0>) and the website Terms of
Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.icann.org%2Fprivacy%2Ftos&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf0335de880ab40abc37608d722c929a2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637016119695016734&sdata=%2FqodieXY9MTAfgnU9QGi88a06AbOzHM7OjrHaTByuCI%3D&reserved=0>). You can visit the
Mailman link above to change your membership status or
configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style
delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
________________________________
Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list
Ccwg-auctionproceeds at icann.org<mailto:Ccwg-auctionproceeds at icann.org>
https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmm.icann.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fccwg-auctionproceeds&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf0335de880ab40abc37608d722c929a2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637016119695026739&sdata=jBT%2F%2FioVe50vvEH1YOC0UQi5mTkOYZU16%2BYK1EIB8Rc%3D&reserved=0>
________________________________
By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.icann.org%2Fprivacy%2Fpolicy&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf0335de880ab40abc37608d722c929a2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637016119695036744&sdata=%2BHd6PW6seoZXuxm8gLTG7wAJClmTVKJ6Cj4jVXMaizo%3D&reserved=0>) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.icann.org%2Fprivacy%2Ftos&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf0335de880ab40abc37608d722c929a2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637016119695046755&sdata=YSxHm4OjnyOYz2av7pWAPZWQpJgooA3uQ%2F1orzvor1E%3D&reserved=0>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
________________________________
Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list
Ccwg-auctionproceeds at icann.org<mailto:Ccwg-auctionproceeds at icann.org>
https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmm.icann.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fccwg-auctionproceeds&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf0335de880ab40abc37608d722c929a2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637016119695056760&sdata=NtlalUO1dc050fATd3dglODZEUvKxKeK3lp0V8f0dH0%3D&reserved=0>
________________________________
By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.icann.org%2Fprivacy%2Fpolicy&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf0335de880ab40abc37608d722c929a2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637016119695056760&sdata=2IR8vhCFj3y5hLGMGrqfkripJI4hvIQJArmPDf%2FyBE4%3D&reserved=0>) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.icann.org%2Fprivacy%2Ftos&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf0335de880ab40abc37608d722c929a2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637016119695066770&sdata=N0fQyw2PDXi1E3jJAHnCzJ3RK0XNSY7msuFz%2Fb8p6vI%3D&reserved=0>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
________________________________
Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list
Ccwg-auctionproceeds at icann.org<mailto:Ccwg-auctionproceeds at icann.org>
https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds
________________________________
By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
________________________________
Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list
Ccwg-auctionproceeds at icann.org<mailto:Ccwg-auctionproceeds at icann.org>
https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds
________________________________
By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
________________________________
Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list
Ccwg-auctionproceeds at icann.org
https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds
________________________________
By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/ccwg-auctionproceeds/attachments/20190819/4f8f31c1/attachment-0001.html>


More information about the Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list