[Ccwg-auctionproceeds] For your review - updated proposal for individual appeals mechanism
Sam Lanfranco
sam at lanfranco.net
Mon Aug 19 18:50:40 UTC 2019
I too am in agreement with setting explicit boundaries on what can and
cannot be appealed and how that process would work.
I would like to add one more suggestion as food for thought. If we want
to broaden the playing field for potential applicants, ICANN might want
to provide either an online self-learning module, or a set of webcasts
(archived) for an orientation and training process for organizations
considering applying for funding. I put this on the table as food for
thought because I have seen too many poorly constructed proposals coming
from areas where there is intense need but areas where organizations
lack the skills to draft an appropriate proposal. For a while I was the
head of the board of an organization that "farmed out" its World Bank
proposal expert to help organizations less familiar with the details of
a good proposal. I would hate to see this pool of funding go mainly to
the "same old same old" organizations, only because they had a
competitive advantage in proposal writing. ---- Food for thought ---.
Sam Lanfranco
On 8/19/2019 12:54 PM, Marika Konings wrote:
>
> Dear All,
>
> Thank you all for your input. Hereby the current language of the draft
> Final Report which already addressed the point of the existing
> accountability mechanism with added in bold and brackets new language
> which aims to reflect the input received to date:
>
> /The CCWG discussed whether an appeals mechanism should be available
> for applicant not selected and/but agreed that [*this would create a
> level of complexity that was deemed not desirable or necessary, after
> having reviewed how other organizations deal with appeals. Instead, it
> is the expectation that applicants not selected would receive feedback
> as part of the response to their application outlining the reasons for
> why their application was not selected. Also, in the context of the
> regular review of the mechanisms, both selected applicants and
> non-selected applicants should be invited to participate and provide
> any feedback they may have on how the program can be further
> improved]. *The CCWG did agree that appropriate measures should be
> taken that would exclude applicants from using ICANN accountability
> measures such as IRP. The reason for this recommendation is that the
> Board decision in this context would be in relation to the
> disbursement of funds based on the recommendations of the independent
> evaluation panel and not as a result of the ICANN’s Board assessment
> of an individual application. This should not necessarily prevent
> applicants from seeking redress through other means as defined by the
> mechanism responsible for disbursement of auction proceeds. /
>
> //
>
> /CCWG Recommendation #NEW: Applicants should not have access to ICANN
> accountability mechanisms such as IRP to challenge a decision from the
> independent evaluation panel to not approve their application, but
> applicants [*not selected should receive feedback as part of the
> response to their application outlining the reasons for why their
> application was not selected]* have a mechanism available that allows
> them to provide additional clarifications to the independent
> evaluation panel or flag if it is believed that something in the
> application was misunderstood or missed. /
>
> //
>
> This will be on the agenda for Wednesday’s meeting so if you have any
> concerns about the proposed edits, please share these in advance of
> Wednesday’s meeting.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Marika
>
> *From: *Ccwg-auctionproceeds <ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces at icann.org>
> on behalf of Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca>
> *Date: *Monday, August 19, 2019 at 10:22
> *To: *"ccwg-auctionproceeds at icann.org"
> <ccwg-auctionproceeds at icann.org>, Becky Burr <BBurr at hwglaw.com>,
> Judith Hellerstein <judith at jhellerstein.com>, "erika at erikamann.com"
> <erika at erikamann.com>
> *Cc: *John R Levine <johnl at taugh.com>,
> "ccwg-auctionproceeds at icann.org" <ccwg-auctionproceeds at icann.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] For your review - updated
> proposal for individual appeals mechanism
>
> My recollection is that we were pretty clear that the existing
> accountabilty mechanisms would not apply, and that it is possible that
> a fundamental Bylaw change would be required to do that.
>
> Alan
> --
> Sent from my mobile. Please excuse brevity and typos.
>
> On August 19, 2019 12:05:18 PM EDT, Becky Burr <BBurr at hwglaw.com> wrote:
>
> It will be particularly important that the final report be clear that the CCWG does not believe that ICANN’s existing accountability mechanisms (ombuds, Reconsiderations, or IRP) should be available to challenge an adverse grant decision. Those mechanisms are not well suited to this kind of situation.
>
> From: Ccwg-auctionproceeds <ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces at icann.org> on behalf of Judith Hellerstein <judith at jhellerstein.com>
> Date: Saturday, August 17, 2019 at 9:14 PM
> To: Erika Mann <erika at erikamann.com>
> Cc: John R Levine <johnl at taugh.com>, CCWG Auction Proceeds <ccwg-auctionproceeds at icann.org>
> Subject: Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] For your review - updated proposal for individual appeals mechanism
>
> Hi Erika
> I agree as well. Sylvia made some excellent points. While I like the idea of an appeals process I can see that it adds an extra layer of complexity to the grant process
>
> Best
> Judith
> Sent from my iPhone
> Judith at jhellerstein.com<mailto:Judith at jhellerstein.com>
> Skype ID:Judithhellerstein
>
> On Aug 17, 2019, at 7:23 AM, Erika Mann <erika at erikamann.com<mailto:erika at erikamann.com>> wrote:
> I believe we have an agreement ... though we had such an agreement before but then Sam thought we should reconsider our understanding ... hopefully we can put this item to rest now.
>
> Erika
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 17, 2019, at 12:21 PM, Marilyn Cade <marilynscade at hotmail.com<mailto:marilynscade at hotmail.com>> wrote:
> Wow, are we seeing "general" support for no appeal mechanism?
>
> Perhaps we can put this sort of to 'bed'?
>
> Add something in our documentation - discussed extensively; considered; recommend that an appeal mechanism is not needed, and would add unneeded complexity, and include a paragraph of explanation, so that in the public comment process, the community commenting feels fully informed?
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: Ccwg-auctionproceeds <ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces at icann.org<mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces at icann.org>> on behalf of Vanda Scartezini <vanda at scartezini.org<mailto:vanda at scartezini.org>>
> Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2019 12:12 AM
> To: Rudolph Daniel <rudi.daniel at gmail.com<mailto:rudi.daniel at gmail.com>>
> Cc: John R Levine <johnl at taugh.com<mailto:johnl at taugh.com>>; CCWG Auction Proceeds <ccwg-auctionproceeds at icann.org<mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds at icann.org>>
> Subject: Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] For your review - updated proposal for individual appeals mechanism
>
> Make sense to me too. I was against an appeal as I said early on since that is the way all R&D grants here works and the independent panel and their report make the not appeal alternative accountable to the society. Not having appellation makes the process quicker allowing the start up of the projects while it makes sense due the development of the technology in the ICT field as is the case of DNS related issues
>
> Vanda Scartezini
> Sent from my iPad
> Sorry for any typos and misspellings
>
> On 17 Aug 2019, at 00:02, Rudolph Daniel <rudi.daniel at gmail.com<mailto:rudi.daniel at gmail.com>> wrote:
> "That being said, grant applicants, both accepted and rejected, should be requested to fill out a survey with their input being used for the annul review of the program."
> End quote.
>
> This makes a lot of sense to me, given the the independent nature of the grant process being tabled.
> The strength of the selection process should be of sufficient integrity to forgo the additional cost of an appeals procedure which could be quite detrimental to the expected outcome and purpose of the grants.
> My view currently is to stay away from appeal procedures of all kinds; and fine tune the mechanisms to ensure that grant awards stay well within pre established control lines. There are already review mechanisms, designed to keep the process in line with ICANN's mission and purpose. I am thinking that in the context of an independent body, and the relative size of the fund, and the advice of others on this d list, no appeal process is going to be "very light weight" .
>
> I think, we should keep it out of the equation if at all possible. Each funding call should be drafted with this in mind...
> RD
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 22:21 Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca<mailto:alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca>> wrote:
> I agree with John. I do not think that we should have an appeal
> process. That being said, if we MUST have one it should:
>
> - be VERY light weight;
> - there must be VERY tight time requirements for submission
> - go to the manager of the selection group with the final result being final;
> - the final result being the project is accepted or still rejected.
> Specifically, there should be no "reason" given (as has recently been
> suggested).
>
> Note that we may end up rejecting perfectly good projects. But they
> may not, in the view of the evaluators, have a sufficiently high
> benefit:cost ration. Or we may simply have used up all of our funds
> for that period on projects that were better!
>
> As John mentions, cost is an issue. If there is an appeal process,
> and the cost is minimal or zero, it will be used by pretty much
> everyone who is rejected, significantly increasing the cost of the
> program with little positive outcome.
>
> That being said, grant applicants, both accepted and rejected, should
> be requested to fill out a survey with their input being used for the
> annul review of the program.
>
> Alan
>
>
> At 16/08/2019 09:46 PM, John R Levine wrote:
>
> Are we going to just ignore the input from people who actually run
> such grant making organizations @Sylvia
> Cadena<mailto:sylvia at apnic.net<mailto:sylvia at apnic.net>> has weighed in on this with some
> factual statements that we seem to have just glossed over?
>
> I am a trustee of the Internet Society, where we have recently set up
> an actual captive grant making foundation with no appeal process, so
> no, we are not. It's a bad idea.
>
> R's,
> John
>
> At 15/08/2019 09:32 AM, John R Levine wrote:
>
> Following on from the last CCWG call and the input received on the individual
> appeals mechanism, please find attached an updated proposal for your review.
> Please share any comments, concerns or suggestions you may have in advance of
> the next CCWG meeting which has been scheduled for Wednesday 21 August.
>
> It's OK to have an appeal process but this leaves some rather important
> questions open, e.g.
>
> * Who pays for the appeal? Is it like UDRP where the parties split
> the cost, or
> is it all ICANN?
>
> * I expect that no matter what we say, most appeals will in fact be applicants
> who are unhappy that they didn't get funded. Is there a way to dispose of
> obviously bogus appeals efficiently? Obviously bogus means things like not
> identifying any process failure other than saying no.
>
> Regards,
> John Levine, johnl at iecc.com<mailto:johnl at iecc.com>, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet
> for Dummies",
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--
------------------------------------------------
"It is a disgrace to be rich and honored in an
unjust state" -Confucius
邦有道，贫且贱焉，耻也。邦无道，富且贵焉，耻也
------------------------------------------------
Dr Sam Lanfranco (Prof Emeritus), Econ, York U., CANADA
email: sam at lanfranco.net Skype: slanfranco
blog: https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com
Phone: +1 613-476-0429 cell: +1 416-816-2852
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