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<p>Judith,</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><b><i>Mea culpa</i>.</b> I did fail to give At Large its well
deserved and proper due. It was an omission due to haste. <i><b>Mea
Culpa</b></i>. <br>
</p>
<p>I should stress that the overall engagement of those representing
the Public Interest is impressive given the constraints they
operate under. <br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Sam L.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/29/2019 1:00 PM, Judith
Hellerstein wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:cfeadcf3-c2bb-0727-8e87-bdb3a5c337c4@jhellerstein.com">
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<p>HI Sam,</p>
<p>Sorry to wade in to this discussion which is not really on
target but felt that I needed to correct some assumptions that
Sam has made. Sam LanFranco, I respect your time and
contributions, but in your description you left out At Large, we
are representing the Public Interest which you have neglected to
mention. Our volunteers (Members and Participants within
CCWG-Auction Proceeds) spend countless hours working on these
issues and get no reimbursement of compensation for our times
spent, but if you look at the attendance and contribution
measures we are always there at these meetings but the same
could not be said for NCSG contingency. Our volunteers are
deeply committed to these issues and many of them make time to
come to these meetings, taking time out of their work day,
waking up very early in the morning or staying up very late at
night, so we beg to differ on your slight. We are not paid by
our jobs for any of the countless hours we put in representing
the public interest, but many of us do this because we are so
passionate about it<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>While many of us in At Large agree with your statement below,
we still manage to find the time to show up and contribute.<br>
</p>
<p>"This labor-intensive process gives favorable weight to the
business sector, with its paid engagement, and less weight to
ngo/civil society sector inputs that depends on volunteer labor.
There is no clear or easy way to address this imbalance, one
which ICANN org downplays to bolster its multistakeholder image.
The differential resource bases and -at best- well meaning
efforts as representation of public interest will continue to
complicate engagement in the working group process."</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Best,</p>
<p>Judith</p>
<p>Speaking for myself<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="80">_________________________________________________________________________
Judith Hellerstein, Founder & CEO
Hellerstein & Associates
3001 Veazey Terrace NW, Washington DC 20008
Phone: (202) 362-5139 Skype ID: judithhellerstein
Mobile/Whats app: +1202-333-6517
E-mail: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Judith@jhellerstein.com" moz-do-not-send="true">Judith@jhellerstein.com</a> Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.jhellerstein.com" moz-do-not-send="true">www.jhellerstein.com</a>
Linked In: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/jhellerstein/" moz-do-not-send="true">www.linkedin.com/in/jhellerstein/</a>
Opening Telecom & Technology Opportunities Worldwide
</pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/29/2019 12:42 PM, Sam Lanfranco
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:68691fb9-f644-2481-1475-41c09ebe7aca@lanfranco.net">
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<![endif]--> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I hope this is not an imposition. We have
segued into a discussion of participation and I would like to
add a comment or two. The first is that within its work
multistakeholder ICANN starts with an endemic imbalance. Those
stakeholder groups with an economic self-interest in issues
are always there, and usually paid to be there. GAC, with its
political interests, operates under constraints that they are
partially uncomfortable with. GAC both partially adjusts and
seeks other forms of leverage, within ICANN’s remit, with <span
style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>efforts at leverage from
elsewhere. The participation of the ngo and civil society
sector suffers from the fact that it does not represent
sector, instead it's self-selected members participate <b><i>in
the interests of</i></b> the issues important to that
sector.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The result is a three-legged working
process and policy stool where the leg representing economic
self-interest (contract and non-contracted business parties)
is strong, determined and well resourced. The GAC leg is well
resourced but constrained by GAC’s advisory role. The public
interest leg (NCSG, NCUC, NPOC) is constrained by its
volunteer labor, lack of resources, and -in some sense- while
engagement is well-meaning, has no direct accountability to
those whose interests it represents.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">To the credit of all, much of the working
group process is an effort to reach clarity around a consensus
outcome. Much of what we put on the table gets a fair hearing
prior to acceptance or rejection. This labor-intensive process
gives favorable weight to the business sector, with its paid
engagement, and less weight to ngo/civil society sector inputs
that depends on volunteer labor. There is no clear or easy way
to address this imbalance, one which ICANN org downplays to
bolster its multistakeholder image. The differential resource
bases and -at best- well meaning efforts as representation of
public interest will continue to complicate engagement in the
working group process. <br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">In my view, the likely long run outcome
will be more of Internet governance policy making taking place
elsewhere, and a tighter ring fence around what is understood
as the ICANN remit. <br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sam L <br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/29/2019 10:35 AM, Marilyn Cade
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:DM6PR05MB633232699EABDEA0C971B9BAD3A20@DM6PR05MB6332.namprd05.prod.outlook.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
<style type="text/css" style="display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;} </style>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> Yes, Elliot, and I
do appreciate your response and your clarification.</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <span style="color:
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; background: var(--white);"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <span style="color:
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; background: var(--white);">I learned a
long time ago to watch the attendance at all meetings, but
also to look at who posts to see who may be very actively
engaged, but did a quick analysis of the attendance rates
of each of the members, and also the participants, and I
also looked at who posts. That took a lot of time but I
thought it worthwhile, as my training in Organizational
Development taught me to loo for the obvious and the non
obvious. </span><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <span style="color:
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; background: var(--white);"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <span style="color:
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; background: var(--white);">Fortunately,
the attendance records help us to document who is
engaging. As do the posting records, which show the active
engagement of several of the members and also some
participants. </span></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> I think there are
multiple indicators of commitment and interest: </div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> e.g. people don't
show up on calls, due to travel or conflicts with other
meetings, <b>but </b>they read and post comments, which
shows their active engagement. </div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> e.g. people actively
fill in the doodle polls so that a meeting with the most
attendance can be selected</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> e.g. people who
can't attend send regrets, so that it is clear they are
participating, even if not able to attend a particular
meeting.</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> We have been
competing with the EPDP and I am not being critical, just
making an observation but for many, it has sort of sucked
all the air out of the room of participation and personally,
I have to respect that, while also striving to make sure
that the community has the participation that it expected.
Certainly, we have had great Board liaison, great staff
support, dedicated co chairs, and a core group of
participants. </div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> But, in some ways,
this is why I want a second public comment period, although
I'd prefer a 30 day period for public comments. </div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> Again, thanks for
your reponse.</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> Marilyn </div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br>
</div>
<div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;
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</div>
<hr tabindex="-1" style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font
style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif"
color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Elliot Noss <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:enoss@tucows.com" moz-do-not-send="true"><enoss@tucows.com></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 29, 2019 9:27 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Marilyn Cade <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:marilynscade@hotmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><marilynscade@hotmail.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> CCWG Auction Proceeds <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] Revised
review/assessment proposal</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div class="" style="word-wrap:break-word;
line-break:after-white-space">“Playing along” was not
meant in a derogatory way. In fact it was intended as a
positive. Apologies if it came across otherwise. I should
more accurately have said “still participating”. The
people who join and lurk are many. Those who stick it out
and work are few. That speaks positively of the few not
the many. Hope that clarifies.
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Iirc this started with something like 60+
people. We are probably 20% of that active at this
point.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">EN<br class="">
<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Aug 29, 2019, at 9:23 AM, Marilyn
Cade <<a href="mailto:marilynscade@hotmail.com"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">marilynscade@hotmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="x_Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class="" style="font-style:normal;
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font-size:12pt"> Elliot, can you clarify what
you mean by "playing along". </div>
<div class="" style="font-style:normal;
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</div>
<div class="" style="font-style:normal;
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text-indent:0px; text-transform:none;
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font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12pt"> I am a little challenged by
that comment, given the amount of time that I
devote to this CCWG. </div>
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</div>
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</div>
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<div class=""
style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12pt"><br class="">
</div>
<hr tabindex="-1" class=""
style="display:inline-block;
width:1154.4375px">
<div id="x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr" class=""><font
class="" style="font-size:11pt"
face="Calibri, sans-serif"><b class="">From:</b><span
class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Ccwg-auctionproceeds
<<a
href="mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces@icann.org"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces@icann.org</a>>
on behalf of Elliot Noss <<a
href="mailto:enoss@tucows.com" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">enoss@tucows.com</a>><br
class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span
class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Thursday,
August 29, 2019 8:08 AM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span
class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>CCWG
Auction Proceeds <<a
href="mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org</a>><br
class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span
class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re:
[Ccwg-auctionproceeds] Revised
review/assessment proposal</font>
<div class=""> </div>
</div>
<div class="" style="word-wrap:break-word;
line-break:after-white-space">I do want you
all to know I am still following along. This
is all WAY TOO MUCH in my view (both experts
on review and this de minimis role for the
community wrapped in another convoluted
process) but I respect others opinions and
efforts.
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">If others agree with me I would
love to hear, just to know I am not alone. I
am also not sure if we are now not down to a
very small group that is still playing
along.<br class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">EN<br class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Aug 28, 2019, at 5:45
PM, Marilyn Cade <<a
href="mailto:marilynscade@hotmail.com"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">marilynscade@hotmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br
class="x_x_Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class=""
style="font-style:normal;
font-variant-caps:normal;
font-weight:normal;
letter-spacing:normal;
text-align:start; text-indent:0px;
text-transform:none;
white-space:normal;
word-spacing:0px;
text-decoration:none;
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12pt"> agree with
Maureen and Sam. </div>
<div class=""
style="font-style:normal;
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text-align:start; text-indent:0px;
text-transform:none;
white-space:normal;
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text-decoration:none;
font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12pt"> cumulative could
be read to mean that each project
is reviewed. NOT what we are
agreeing on. </div>
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</div>
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font-size:12pt"> <br class="">
</div>
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style="font-family:Helvetica;
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text-align:start; text-indent:0px;
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text-decoration:none; float:none;
display:inline!important"></span></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
------------------------------------------------
"It is a disgrace to be rich and honored in an
unjust state" -Confucius
邦有道，贫且贱焉，耻也。邦无道，富且贵焉，耻也
------------------------------------------------
Dr Sam Lanfranco (Prof Emeritus), Econ, York U., CANADA
email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sam@lanfranco.net">sam@lanfranco.net</a> Skype: slanfranco
blog: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com">https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com</a>
Phone: +1 613-476-0429 cell: +1 416-816-2852</pre>
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