[ccwg-internet-governance] U.S. Nationlization of Apple's Employees

bzs at theworld.com bzs at theworld.com
Thu Feb 18 22:27:27 UTC 2016


On February 18, 2016 at 13:49 ron.baione at yahoo.com (Ron Baione) wrote:
 > " I know I've been offered such reimbursement                                 
 > > for help delivering information in response to a subpoena but decided       
 > > the amount offered wasn't worth the paperwork, a few hundred dollars        
 >                                                                               
 > > in one case"                                                                
 >                                                                               
 > You originally stated in the quote above that in your rxperience you refused  
 > the reimbursement and also refused to do the paperwork. Now you are saying    
 > that you refused the reimbursement but did the paperwork anyway?             

I refused (declined) to do the paperwork to collect the reimbursement.

I delivered what was requested in the subpoena.

 >                                                                               
 > Secondly, paperwork is different than being forced into creating a new        
 > product. Apple already stated it helps the US Government with paperwork also, 
 > this isn't about paperwork though. It is about being forced into creating a   
 > product, no different than being forced to pick cotton.                      
 
I guess that's for Apple to assess whether it's a lot of work or not.

But there's more going on here because the data in question could be
retrieved by someone technically competent who the FBI could hire.

What the FBI asks for is mostly a matter of copying out the flash
storage from the phone. And perhaps some technical documentation on
the encryption methods used but I believe that's public knowledge.

I realize it's being turned into this big polemical issue but taken
like that it's really not a lot of work (note: I am very technical and
have spoken to others technical and there's general agreement on
that.)

That doesn't mean the FBI could decrypt the data, but the FBI is not
asking Apple to decrypt the data.

Only to help them access the encrypted data.

One source of confusion is that the FBI request proposes a very
specific solution from Apple which may not be necessary.

So a reasonable suspicion is the FBI is not so much after the
technical solution as a legal precedent of some sort.

 >                                                                               
 > Ron                                                                           
 > 
 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 > From: bzs at world.std.com <bzs at world.std.com>;
 > To: Ron Baione <ron.baione at yahoo.com>;
 > Cc: <bzs at world.std.com>; <ccwg-internet-governance at icann.org>;
 > Subject: Re: [ccwg-internet-governance] U.S. Nationlization of Apple's
 > Employees
 > Sent: Thu, Feb 18, 2016 8:30:35 PM
 > 
 > On February 18, 2016 at 12:06 ron.baione at yahoo.com (Ron Baione) wrote:        
 > > So you were allowed to decline the offer for reimbursement and Apple has    
 > not                                                                           
 > > been allowed to decline the offer for reimbursement, if there was one. From 
 > > the reports i've read, Apple has not been offered a monetary settlement in  
 >                                                                               
 > > exchange for assisting in this case.                                        
 >                                                                               
 > I was allowed to decline the reimbursement, the money.                        
 >                                                                               
 > I was not legally allowed to refuse to perform the work.                      
 >                                                                               
 > Not without successfully challenging their subpoena request in court          
 > which I had no reason or interest in challenging.                             
 >                                                                               
 > Reimbursement for reasonable costs etc to Apple would be implicit in          
 > the request so there's no need for the FBI to state it.                       
 >                                                                               
 > The court's request did say unless the request is unreasonably                
 > burdensome (to Apple.)                                                        
 > 
 > >                                                                             
 > >                                                                             
 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 > > From: bzs at world.std.com <bzs at world.std.com>;                                
 > > To: Ron Baione <ron.baione at yahoo.com>;                                      
 > > Cc: <ccwg-internet-governance at icann.org>;                                   
 > > Subject: Re: [ccwg-internet-governance] U.S. Nationlization of Apple's      
 > > Employees                                                                   
 > > Sent: Thu, Feb 18, 2016 7:28:24 PM                                          
 > >                                                                             
 > > The USG has schedules for reimbursment for work done in support of a        
 >                                                                               
 > > criminal investigation. I know I've been offered such reimbursement         
 > > for help delivering information in response to a subpoena but decided       
 > > the amount offered wasn't worth the paperwork, a few hundred dollars        
 >                                                                               
 > > in one case, helping track down a child porn seller who was using our       
 > > system.                                                                     
 > >                                                                             
 > > And of course the hundreds of millions paid to Verizon, AT&T, et al         
 > > for compliance with phone metadata and other requests. For them it's a      
 >                                                                               
 > > significant revenue center.                                                 
 > >                                                                             
 > > So it's hard to see how this is terribly new.                               
 > >                                                                             
 > > There are reasons to question this current event but I don't think          
 >                                                                               
 > > this is one of them.                                                        
 >                                                                               
 > >                                                                             
 > > --                                                                          
 >                                                                               
 > >         -Barry Shein                                                        
 >                                                                               
 > >                                                                             
 > > Software Tool & Die    | bzs at TheWorld.com            | http://              
 > www.TheWorld.com                                                              
 > > Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD      | 800-THE-WRLD         
 > > The World: Since 1989  | A Public Information Utility | *oo*                
 >                                                                               
 >                                                                               
 > >                                                                             
 >                                                                               
 > --                                                                            
 >         -Barry Shein                                                          
 >                                                                               
 > Software Tool & Die    | bzs at TheWorld.com            | http://www.TheWorld.com
 > Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD      | 800-THE-WRLD           
 > The World: Since 1989  | A Public Information Utility | *oo*                  
 > 

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs at TheWorld.com             | http://www.TheWorld.com
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD       | 800-THE-WRLD
The World: Since 1989  | A Public Information Utility | *oo*


More information about the ccwg-internet-governance mailing list