[ChineseGP] 答复: 答?: latest versions of CGP and JGP variant tables?

Sat Apr 25 13:43:49 UTC 2015

Dear Hotta San

If it is needed, LGR-2 will be a small modification (if any) of Chinese
LGR-1 depending on the requirements from J and/or K.

:) 

-----ÓÊ¼þÔ¼þ-----
·¢¼þÈË: hotta at jprs.co.jp [mailto:hotta at jprs.co.jp] 
·¢ËÍÊ±¼ä: 2015Äê4ÔÂ24ÈÕ 16:50
ÊÕ¼þÈË: Íõ?
³ËÍ: 'KIM Kyongsok'; 'Dongman Lee'; 'Joe Zhang'; 'Wang Wei'; 'Kenny Huang';
'Yuri'; 'Yoshiro YONEYA'; 'Zhang Zhoucai'; qichao at cnnic.cn; 'Zhiwei Yan';
KoreanGP at icann.org; ChineseGP at icann.org; JapaneseGP at icann.org; '? ??';
'???'; '???'
Ö÷Ìâ: Re: ´ð?: latest versions of CGP and JGP variant tables?

Dear Wang Wei,

On Fri, 24 Apr 2015 11:15:39 +0800
<wangwei at cnic.cn> wrote:
> Dear Hotta San, Dear All
> 
> Yes, I think Yoneya' algorithm and terms work for us.

The above words ease me a lot:-)

> I think if everything goes smoothly,  Han full-repertoire will be 
> unified set =  Chinese LGR-1 repertoire + Japanese LGR-1 repertoire + 
> Korean LGR-1 repertoire

agreed.

> Which means, Japanese LGR-1 doesn't have variants and basically 
> accepts all the variants in Chinese LGR-1, and so do Korean LGR-1 In 
> that case, MSS will never be used.

confirmed. (my understanding was correct:-)

> MSS is defined as limited sub-set of CGP repertoire, which contains 
> proposed variants and will be used to coordinate with J and K

confirmed. (my understanding was correct:-)

> It means, some specific code points in MSS, CGP might delete them or 
> change their status according to the coordination result. (especially 
> in the case like "»ú" and "™C")

confirmed with thanks.  (my understanding was correct:-)

> In that case,  Han full-repertoire  =  Chinese LGR-2 repertoire + 
> Japanese
> LGR-1 repertoire + Korean LGR-1 repertoire

here I understand that Chinese LGR-2 will be the same as Chinese
LGR-1 or just a small modification (if any) of Chinese LGR-1 depending on
the requirements from J and/or K..

> Anyway, as Hotta mentioned, MSS is only an intermediate tool that is 
> introduced to speed up Yoneya's algorithm.

confirmed.  (my understanding was correct:-)

Thanks a lot, Wang wei.

Regards
Hiro

> Regards
> Wang Wei
> 
> -----?¼þÔ¼þ-----
> ?¼þÈË: hotta at jprs.co.jp [mailto:hotta at jprs.co.jp]
> ?ËÍ??: 2015Äê4ÔÂ22ÈÕ 13:23
> ÊÕ¼þÈË: Íõ?
> ³ËÍ: KIM Kyongsok; Dongman Lee; Joe Zhang; Wang Wei; Kenny Huang; Yuri; 
> Yoshiro YONEYA; Zhang Zhoucai; <qichao at cnnic.cn>; Zhiwei Yan; 
> KoreanGP at icann.org; ChineseGP at icann.org; JapaneseGP at icann.org; ? ??; 
> ???; ???
> Ö÷?: Re: latest versions of CGP and JGP variant tables?
> 
> Dear Wang Wei,
> 
> I appreciate your effort in making the way easier and faster.
> I think I understand the purpose of the introduction of MSS, and you 
> have my sympathy to some extent.
> 
> Please see my observation and comments below.
> I need your and everybody's feedback.
> 
> ===
> 
> Here, let me use the technical terms in Yoneya's algorithm we 
> tentatively agreed in Dallas.
> 
> <premises>
> 
> (1) Japanese LGR-1 definition is almost finished by JGP
>      - Japanese LGR-1 repertoire      : intersection of JPRS repertoire 
>                                         and MSR
>      - Japanese LGR-1 variants        : no variants
>      - dispositions in Japanese LGR-1 : all characters in Japanese 
>                                         LGR-1 are 'allocatable'
>      - Japanese LGR-1 WLE             : no rules in WLE
> 
> (2) JGP has tentatively decided that Japanese LGR-2 would basically 
>     accept all the variants defined in Chinese LGR-1 and Korean LGR-1
>       (the appropriateness of this decision just needs to be confirmed 
>        after CGP and KGP define the variants)
> 
> (3) Han full-repertoire =  Chinese LGR-1 repertoire
>                          + Japanese LGR-1 repertoire
>                          + Korean LGR-1 repertoire
> 
> <then let me conclude that>
> 
> (A) Definition of MSS is not necessary for JGP.
> 
>     This is because
>      - Japanese LGR-1 repertoire is already defined using JPRS 
>        repertoire and ICANN MSR
>      - Japanese LGR-1 doesn't have variants
> 
>     To put it in the other way around, Japanese LGR-1 is not affected 
>     by the definition of MSS, no matter how MSS is defined.
> 
>     This means JGP does not object the current MSS proposal if (1)(2)(3)
>     stand, no matter how MSS is defined. 
> 
> (B) Therefore, MSS can be defined as the union set of current MSS 
>     proposal and Japanese LGR-1 repertoire, if CGP and KGP also agree. 
>     And the definition of the variants within MSS can be discussed 
>     between CGP and KGP. JGP will observe the discussion and the 
>     result.
> 
>     Here, if Korean LGR-1 doesn't have variants and KGP decides to 
>     basically accept all the variants in Chinese LGR-1, it's pretty 
>     straight-forward to define the RootLGR Han variants, because 
>     variants are exactly the same as those defined in Chinese LGR-1.
> 
> (C) JGP just wants to see the Han RootLGR repertoire and variants 
>     that can be automatically generated using Yoneya's algorithm and 
>     wants to confirm that there is no big problem in the generated 
>     Han RootLGR.
> 
> (D) CGP's proposal using MSS seems to be an ingenuity to speed up and 
>     to avoid big backtrack of the LGR development, I think it works 
>     if C/J/K repertoires are defined soon (actually CGP and JGP have 
>     already defined their draft repertoire).
> 
> (E) How about using Yoneya's algorithm and terms (such as LGR-1 and 
>     LGR-2) in explaining CJK activities and its output to the 
>     community and using MSS in speeding up the development?
> 
>     This is because 
>     - it is easier to understand
>     - it looks more neutral/fair to all C, J, and K
>     - MSS can be regarded as an intermediate tool that is introduced 
>       to speed up Yoneya's algorithm in the case CJK is confronting 
>       now.
> 
> Regards,
> Hiro
> 
> On Thu, 16 Apr 2015 23:38:18 +0800 (GMT+08:00)
> Íõ? <wangwei at cnic.cn> wrote:
> > 
> > Dear All
> > 
> > After the discussion in today¡®s CGP meeting, Prof. ZHANG and Mr. QI 
> > Chao
> has produced a Minimum Shared Set (MSS) for C, J and K.
> > 
> > The MSS is consisted of the following code point subset:
> > 
> > A: IICore Base (9810, all fall in MSR)
> > B: Historically Registered Hanzi under .CN/TW/HK (7000/5292/4191, 
> > all fall in MSR)
> > C: PRC National Normalized Hanzi along with their traditional 
> > variants (8105/3489, some out of MSR)
> > 
> > MSS=A+B+C-D-E
> > 
> > D: code points in C, but not in MSR
> > E: Stroke or Radicals (31) LIDU?(5)  Out of BMP(62)
> > 
> > 
> > finally, we got 12531 valid code points aggregate a Minimum Shared 
> > Set,
> based on which C, J and K could define their own variants, or adopt 
> others variants.
> > 
> > After all three GPs finish the variants generation and coordinaiton 
> > on MSS, each GP still has the chance to add independent code points 
> > (with no
> variants) into MSS seperately, to from its own final repertoire.
> > 
> > STEP1: MSS generated and accepted by three GPs, a mininum code 
> > points set
> shared by all of us.
> > STEP2: variants generated and coordinated based on MSS
> > STEP3: Add each GP's own independent and unrelated code points, form 
> > the
> final formal repertoire.
> > 
> > Does this process work for you? please feel free to give your comments.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Regards
> > 
> > WANG Wei
> > 
> > PS: special thanks for the hardwork of Mr. QI Chao
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > -----ÔÊ¼?¼þ-----
> > ?¼þÈË: "KIM Kyongsok" <gimgs0 at gmail.com>
> > ?ËÍ??: 2015Äê4ÔÂ16ÈÕ ÐÇÆÚËÄ
> > ÊÕ¼þÈË: "hotta at jprs.co.jp" <hotta at jprs.co.jp>
> > ³ËÍ: "Wang Wei" <wangwei at cnic.cn>, "Dongman Lee" 
> > <dlee at cs.kaist.ac.kr>, "Joe Zhang" <joezhang43 at hotmail.com>, "Wang 
> > Wei" <wangwei at cnnic.cn>, "Kenny Huang" <huangksh at gmail.com>, Yuri 
> > <takamatsu at jprs.co.jp>, "Yoshiro YONEYA" <yoshiro.yoneya at jprs.co.jp>,
"Zhang Zhoucai"
> > <joe.zhang at unihan.com.cn>, "<qichao at cnnic.cn>" <qichao at cnnic.cn>, 
> > "Zhiwei Yan" <yanzhiwei at cnnic.cn>, "KoreanGP at icann.org"
> > <KoreanGP at icann.org>, "ChineseGP at icann.org" <ChineseGP at icann.org>, 
> > "JapaneseGP at icann.org" <JapaneseGP at icann.org>, "? ??"
> > <mjkim at kisa.or.kr>, "???" <isanjo at empas.com>, "???" 
> > <partizan21 at naver.com>, "KIM Kyongsok" <gimgs0 at gmail.com>
> > Ö÷?: latest versions of CGP and JGP variant tables?
> > 
> > 
> > Dear everybody:
> > 
> > 
> > KLGP is trying to prepare a repertoire and a variant table.
> > 
> > 
> > I would like to get the (or almost?)  latest versions of CGP and JGP
> variant tables.
> > 
> > 
> > Thanks very much in advance.
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > 
> > ? ??      KIM, Kyongsok
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 