[council] Motion for GNSO Consideration of the CCWG Accountability Third Draft Report
Volker Greimann
vgreimann at key-Systems.net
Thu Jan 14 10:02:09 UTC 2016
Agreed, a flat yes or no vote/response will not sufficiently capture the
level of detail of the report and our views on them.
Best,
Volker
Am 14.01.2016 um 09:35 schrieb WUKnoben:
> All,
> at first my thanks to the team who undertook this effort of
> evaluation. As I see there are 5 levels of support suggested:
>
> * General Support
> * General Support with qualifications
> * General Support with (possibly divergent) Conditions
> * Limited Support with some opposition
> * No support
>
> Questions for understanding:
>
> * did I put it in the right row (up – down)?
> * would you explain the differences?
> * what does “general support” mean? It looks like a
> restriction/limitation if it doesn’t mean “full support”. Why not
> just saying “support”?
>
> I’m inclined to join Keith’s concerns re the rating for rec #11.
>
> Best regards
>
> Wolf-Ulrich
>
> *From:* Drazek, Keith <mailto:kdrazek at Verisign.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 14, 2016 7:56 AM
> *To:* James M. Bladel <mailto:jbladel at godaddy.com> ;
> egmorris1 at toast.net <mailto:egmorris1 at toast.net> ; Johan Helsingius
> <mailto:julf at julf.com> ; Amr Elsadr <mailto:aelsadr at egyptig.org> ;
> Marika Konings <mailto:marika.konings at icann.org>
> *Cc:* WUKnoben <mailto:wolf-ulrich.knoben at t-online.de> ; GNSO Council
> List <mailto:council at gnso.icann.org>
> *Subject:* RE: [council] Motion for GNSO Consideration of the CCWG
> Accountability Third Draft Report
>
> James, thanks for this clear and concise explanation. I agree with
> your assessment on process.
>
> I would like to raise a question about the “No Support” for
> Recommendation 11 in our draft communication. I understand there is
> opposition to the 2/3 threshold increase, but Recommendation 11 is
> broader than that…it also incorporates the threshold definition of GAC
> consensus advice (no formal opposition) into the bylaws, which is
> something very positive for all of us in the GNSO. Do we really want
> to signal “no support” for the entire recommendation, or should we
> perhaps make it “limited support with some opposition?” I’m a bit
> concerned that we’d be sending an inaccurate signal to the CCWG if it
> was left as simply “no support.”
>
> For the record, the RySG understands that Recommendation 11 is a
> package and we suggested new provisions if the 2/3 language were to
> remain. We would be happy to see the 2/3 threshold reversed, but we
> did not signal “no support” on Rec-11 in our written comments to the CCWG.
>
> Happy to discuss further on the upcoming Council call.
>
> Regards,
>
> Keith
>
> *From:*owner-council at gnso.icann.org
> [mailto:owner-council at gnso.icann.org] *On Behalf Of *James M. Bladel
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 13, 2016 2:54 PM
> *To:* egmorris1 at toast.net; Johan Helsingius; Amr Elsadr; Marika Konings
> *Cc:* WUKnoben; GNSO Council List
> *Subject:* Re: [council] Motion for GNSO Consideration of the CCWG
> Accountability Third Draft Report
>
> Colleagues:
>
> The discussion around this has been extremely valuable, and big thanks
> for all of those who weighed in. I apologize for taking so long to
> weigh in, but I was watching some of the keynote speeches here at
> NamesCon (include Paul’s. Nice job!). In any event, my thoughts are
> below.
>
> *What is the purpose of tomorrow’s call?*
>
> The GNSO Council will send its unified position on the
> CCWG-Accountability recommendations to the co-chairs of the CCWG. We
> will achieve this by reviewing, discussing and approving the
> Consolidated document that was prepared by the SubTeam.
>
> *Should we do this now, or wait for the final CCWG Recommendations?*
>
> It seems increasingly likely that there will be a new set of modified
> CCWG Recommendations in the near future. However, if we want to help
> shape the next report to ensure it reflects the views of the GNSO
> Community, we need to comment on this set of Recommendations now.
> Doing so will also provide guidance & support to the GNSO members of
> the CCWG-ACCT in their work to drive the best outcomes.
>
> *Are we voting, or drafting a letter, or what?*
>
> This is an open question for tomorrow’s call. Some have indicated a
> preference for a less formal (letter) response, similar to what we’ve
> seen from the ccNSO. Others have noted that something this important
> would benefit from an itemized expression of support/non-support. The
> CCWG co-chairs, and the CCWG charter, appear to favor the latter, and
> certainly a formal vote will be required for the Final
> Recommendations. My hope is that we are able to resolve this
> tomorrow, but if necessary we can vote on whether or not we need to
> vote (!).
>
> *If we do vote, then what is the vote about? What are we voting on?
> How will this go down?*
>
> If we proceed with a vote, then the Councilors will be asked whether
> or not they agree with the Subteam’s analysis & consolidation of the
> public comments filed by the SGs and CS. In other words, we will be
> voting on the —language— of the response, NOT the response itself.
> Example: If the Subteam reports that the GNSO opposes a
> recommendation, a “Yes” vote will agree with that statement of GNSO
> opposition, not the recommendation itself. Hopefully this will become
> clearer tomorrow as we walk through the document.
>
> *What if we can’t agree?*
>
> If we cannot reach consensus (either via discussion or voting) on the
> GNSO response to any recommendation, then we will refer the CCWG
> Co-Chairs back to the individual comments filed by the SGs and Cs. I
> believe there are a few (2-3) areas in the report where this may be
> the case. But generally speaking, the Subteam found a great deal of
> overlap in SG/C positions, and when those comments included qualifiers
> or conditions, those were usually not in conflict.
>
> *From: *<owner-council at gnso.icann.org
> <mailto:owner-council at gnso.icann.org>> on behalf of Edward Morris
> <egmorris1 at toast.net <mailto:egmorris1 at toast.net>>
> *Reply-To: *"egmorris1 at toast.net <mailto:egmorris1 at toast.net>"
> <egmorris1 at toast.net <mailto:egmorris1 at toast.net>>
> *Date: *Wednesday, January 13, 2016 at 8:40
> *To: *Johan Helsingius <julf at julf.com <mailto:julf at julf.com>>, Amr
> Elsadr <aelsadr at egyptig.org <mailto:aelsadr at egyptig.org>>, Marika
> Konings <marika.konings at icann.org <mailto:marika.konings at icann.org>>
> *Cc: *WUKnoben <wolf-ulrich.knoben at t-online.de
> <mailto:wolf-ulrich.knoben at t-online.de>>, GNSO Council List
> <council at gnso.icann.org <mailto:council at gnso.icann.org>>
> *Subject: *Re: [council] Motion for GNSO Consideration of the CCWG
> Accountability Third Draft Report
>
> Hi Marika,
>
> I'm very appreciative of your efforts to make us aware of the approach
> the CCNSO took. We need all the input we can get. Now if you could do
> the same for the GAC I think we all would be double appreciative!
> (we're still waiting for some smoke signals from our government
> colleagues).
>
> I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. I definitely think we should be taking an
> up and down vote on each of the recommendations. I referenced the
> sub-teams work only to suggest that format - response by
> recommendation - be used going forward. Thanks for letting me know
> that I wasn't clear and giving me the chance to clear up any
> misunderstanding.
>
> Ed
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From*: "Marika Konings" <marika.konings at icann.org
> <mailto:marika.konings at icann.org>>
> *Sent*: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 4:27 PM
> *To*: "Edward Morris" <egmorris1 at toast.net
> <mailto:egmorris1 at toast.net>>, "Johan Helsingius" <julf at julf.com
> <mailto:julf at julf.com>>, "Amr Elsadr" <aelsadr at egyptig.org
> <mailto:aelsadr at egyptig.org>>
> *Cc*: "WUKnoben" <wolf-ulrich.knoben at t-online.de
> <mailto:wolf-ulrich.knoben at t-online.de>>, "GNSO Council List"
> <council at gnso.icann.org <mailto:council at gnso.icann.org>>
> *Subject*: Re: [council] Motion for GNSO Consideration of the CCWG
> Accountability Third Draft Report
>
> Thanks, Ed. I didn’t mean to imply that the ccNSO response was the way
> to go, I thought it just might be of interest to see how other
> chartering organisations in addition to the ALAC approached it.
>
> As a point of clarification, are you suggesting that an up / down vote
> would be taken on the response provided by the sub-team, not
> necessarily the recommendations themselves? I thought you were
> suggesting the latter in your initial email, but your last paragraph
> in this section makes me think you are suggesting the former?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Marika
>
> *From: *<owner-council at gnso.icann.org
> <mailto:owner-council at gnso.icann.org>> on behalf of Edward Morris
> <egmorris1 at toast.net <mailto:egmorris1 at toast.net>>
> *Reply-To: *Edward Morris <egmorris1 at toast.net
> <mailto:egmorris1 at toast.net>>
> *Date: *Wednesday 13 January 2016 at 17:16
> *To: *Johan Helsingius <julf at julf.com <mailto:julf at julf.com>>, Amr
> Elsadr <aelsadr at egyptig.org <mailto:aelsadr at egyptig.org>>, Marika
> Konings <marika.konings at icann.org <mailto:marika.konings at icann.org>>
> *Cc: *WUKnoben <wolf-ulrich.knoben at t-online.de
> <mailto:wolf-ulrich.knoben at t-online.de>>, GNSO Council List
> <council at gnso.icann.org <mailto:council at gnso.icann.org>>
> *Subject: *Re: [council] Motion for GNSO Consideration of the CCWG
> Accountability Third Draft Report
>
> Hi Marika,
>
> Thanks for this. That certainly is an approach we could take but I
> question it's overall utility to those of us in the CCWG who are
> attempting to put together a proposal all of the chartering
> organisations can support.
>
> I would refer everyone to the CCWG Charter ( ), specifically:
>
> ---
>
> SO and AC support for the Draft Proposal(s)
> Following submission of the Draft Proposal(s), each of the chartering
> organizations shall, in accordance with their own rules and
> procedures, review and discuss the Draft Proposal(s) and decide
> whether to adopt the recommendations contained in it. The chairs of
> the chartering organizations shall notify the co-chairs of the WG of
> the result of the deliberations as soon as feasible.
>
> Supplemental Draft Proposal
> In the event that one or more of the participating SO’s or AC’s do(es)
> not adopt one or more of the recommendation(s) contained in the Draft
> Proposal(s), the Co-Chairs of the CCWG-Accountability shall be
> notified accordingly. This notification shall include at a minimum the
> reasons for the lack of support and a suggested alternative that would
> be acceptable, if any. The CCWG-Accountability may, at its discretion,
> reconsider, post for public comments and/or submit to the chartering
> organizations a Supplemental Draft Proposal, which takes into
> accounting the concerns raised.
>
> Following submission of the Supplemental Draft Proposal, the
> chartering organizations shall discuss and decide in accordance with
> its own rules and procedures whether to adopt the recommendations
> contained in the Supplemental Draft Proposal. The Chairs of the
> chartering organizations shall notify the Co-Chairs of the
> CCWG-Accountability of the result of the deliberations as soon as
> feasible.
>
> ---
>
> With the exception of its referral to the CWG requirements, I don't
> find the CCNSO response to be particularly helpful. Provisional
> support of the "direction of travel" doesn't tell the CCWG if we need
> to change some specifics of any of our recommendations. If the CCNSO
> is prepared to support all the recommendations save those related to
> the CWG they should say so. What we're trying to avoid is a situation
> where only on the final vote of approval / disapproval do we become
> aware of a Chartering organisations problems with a specific
> recommendation. As I understand things, that actually is the purpose
> of the special attention being paid to the Chartering organisations in
> this round of public comments. Although there are some tweaks that
> probably should be made, I do largely support the work of the Council
> sub-team and the result of their efforts and hope that is the basis of
> our discussion and response.
>
> Best,
>
> Ed
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From*: "Marika Konings" <marika.konings at icann.org
> <mailto:marika.konings at icann.org>>
> *Sent*: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 3:39 PM
> *To*: "Edward Morris" <egmorris1 at toast.net
> <mailto:egmorris1 at toast.net>>, "Johan Helsingius" <julf at julf.com
> <mailto:julf at julf.com>>, "Amr Elsadr" <aelsadr at egyptig.org
> <mailto:aelsadr at egyptig.org>>
> *Cc*: "WUKnoben" <wolf-ulrich.knoben at t-online.de
> <mailto:wolf-ulrich.knoben at t-online.de>>, "GNSO Council List"
> <council at gnso.icann.org <mailto:council at gnso.icann.org>>
> *Subject*: Re: [council] Motion for GNSO Consideration of the CCWG
> Accountability Third Draft Report
>
> You may also be interested to see the approach the ccNSO Council took
> in their comments on the third draft proposal:
> http://ccnso.icann.org/workinggroups/ccwg-draft-3-proposal-07jan16-en.pdf.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Marika
>
> *From: *<owner-council at gnso.icann.org
> <mailto:owner-council at gnso.icann.org>> on behalf of Edward Morris
> <egmorris1 at toast.net <mailto:egmorris1 at toast.net>>
> *Reply-To: *Edward Morris <egmorris1 at toast.net
> <mailto:egmorris1 at toast.net>>
> *Date: *Wednesday 13 January 2016 at 15:42
> *To: *Johan Helsingius <julf at julf.com <mailto:julf at julf.com>>, Amr
> Elsadr <aelsadr at egyptig.org <mailto:aelsadr at egyptig.org>>
> *Cc: *WUKnoben <wolf-ulrich.knoben at t-online.de
> <mailto:wolf-ulrich.knoben at t-online.de>>, GNSO Council List
> <council at gnso.icann.org <mailto:council at gnso.icann.org>>
> *Subject: *Re: [council] Motion for GNSO Consideration of the CCWG
> Accountability Third Draft Report
>
> Hi,
>
> Other chartering organisations (see, for example, ALAC:
> http://forum.icann.org/lists/comments-draft-ccwg-accountability-proposal-30nov15/pdfeO5FTDW5b5.pdf
> ) have given clear indications of approval / disapproval of each of
> the twelve recommendations, along with reasoning thereof. I'd suggest
> we do the same. I'm ambivalent as to whether we indicate our
> preferences in the form of a Motion or a letter from our Chair, but I
> do believe the CCWG needs the simplified guidance that only a straight
> up / down decision on each recommendation can give.
>
> Ed
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From*: "Amr Elsadr" <aelsadr at egyptig.org <mailto:aelsadr at egyptig.org>>
> *Sent*: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 2:07 PM
> *To*: "Johan Helsingius" <julf at julf.com <mailto:julf at julf.com>>
> *Cc*: "WUKnoben" <wolf-ulrich.knoben at t-online.de
> <mailto:wolf-ulrich.knoben at t-online.de>>, "GNSO Council List"
> <council at gnso.icann.org <mailto:council at gnso.icann.org>>
> *Subject*: Re: [council] Motion for GNSO Consideration of the CCWG
> Accountability Third Draft Report
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I agree that a formal vote is not absolutely needed at this stage, but
> I wonder whether or not a formal vote of the 3rd draft recommendations
> would be helpful to the CCWG. I imagine that it will draw a very clear
> picture of where the stakeholder groups/constituencies of one of the
> CCWG’s chartering organisations stand on each of the recommendations.
>
> Although these positions have probably been communicated by the
> appointed members from the GNSO groups, my guess would be that the
> members of the CCWG may still find a Council vote helpful.
>
> Just a thought.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Amr
>
> > On Jan 13, 2016, at 3:35 PM, Johan Helsingius <julf at julf.com
> <mailto:julf at julf.com>> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Wolf-Ulrich,
> >
> >> Maybe tomorrow we could sort out and discuss the very last not yet
> >> agreeable recs. The formal vote could then be taken at a later
> stage – maybe
> >> even at the council meeting next week.
> >
> > I am not entirely sure why a formal vote is needed now, assuming
> > there will have to be one more, final(?) draft - surely what counts
> > is the vote on the *final* version. Or am I wrong in my assumptions?
> >
> > Julf
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
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