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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=661411608-21042008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>I agree.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=661411608-21042008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=661411608-21042008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>tom</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
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<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>Von:</B> owner-council@gnso.icann.org
[mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org] <B>Im Auftrag von </B>Robin
Gross<BR><B>Gesendet:</B> Samstag, 19. April 2008 23:41<BR><B>An:</B> Council
GNSO<BR><B>Betreff:</B> Re: [council] RE: Fast Flux Report -
questions<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>I also like the expert panel approach that Chuck suggest below. It will
allow for greater flexibility and a more thorough investigation of the policy
issues at stake before we jump to any particular conclusion.</DIV>
<DIV><BR class=webkit-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>Robin</DIV>
<DIV><BR class=webkit-block-placeholder></DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Apr 19, 2008, at 4:32 AM, Tim Ruiz wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Chuck, I agree with that approach. In fact, the
exchange of questions</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">and the answers below exemplify why such an
approach is necessary.</DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Tim<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">-------- Original Message --------</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Subject: RE: [council] RE: Fast Flux Report -
questions</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">From: "Gomes, Chuck" <<A
href="mailto:cgomes@verisign.com">cgomes@verisign.com</A>></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Date: Fri, April 18, 2008 2:52 pm</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">To: "Liz Gasster" <<A
href="mailto:liz.gasster@icann.org">liz.gasster@icann.org</A>>, "Rosette,
Kristina"</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><<A
href="mailto:krosette@cov.com">krosette@cov.com</A>>, <<A
href="mailto:council@gnso.icann.org">council@gnso.icann.org</A>></DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Sorry to sound like a broken record, but the more I
think about the</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">issue, the more I am convinced that the best thing
we could do as a</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Council before initiating a PDP is to develop very
specific list of</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">questions and form an expert panel that is tasked
with trying to answer</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">the questions.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>
</SPAN>The expert panel could be formed from volunteers from</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">the SSAC, the APWG, and constituencies that have
expertise related to</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">the use of fast flux.<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Such a panel could be given a relatively
short</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">timeline, assuming they can complete the work in
that timeline.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>It is</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">possible that, if the right experts are included,
they might be able to</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">respond to the questions in a month or two.</DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Chuck</DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">From: owner-council@gnso.icann.org [<A
href="mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org">mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org</A>]</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">On Behalf Of Liz Gasster</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 3:19 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">To: Rosette, Kristina; <A
href="mailto:council@gnso.icann.org">council@gnso.icann.org</A></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Subject: [council] RE: Fast Flux Report -
questions<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Kristina and all,</DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Following are responses below from staff where we
can.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>I believe some</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">of your questions highlight the need for further
study (possibly in more</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">areas than we've identified in the report, as some
of your questions</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">suggest). <SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Happy to try to answer further where we can, if you
have more questions.</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space></SPAN>I just
want to note again too that given the short time frame to</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">prepare the report, the breadth of sources we were
able to draw upon</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">were necessarily limited.<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>I really like your idea about noting
sources</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">and including a bibliography when we prepare issues
reports in the</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">future, and I'm going to add this as a suggestion
in our GNSO</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">improvements process so that we capture this idea
to consider in the</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">development of a new policy development process.
<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Liz</DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">From: owner-council@gnso.icann.org [<A
href="mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org">mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org</A>]</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">On Behalf Of Rosette, Kristina</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 7:00 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">To: <A
href="mailto:council@gnso.icann.org">council@gnso.icann.org</A></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Subject: [council] Fast Flux Report -
questions<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">All,<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>
</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Here are some initial questions/requests about the
report.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>I will</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">forward additional questions soon.<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Page 1:<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>
</SPAN>The report states that staff "consulted other appropriate and</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">relevant sources of information".<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>In the interest of transparency, I</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">would appreciate having those sources be
identified. <SPAN class=Apple-converted-space></SPAN>As a general</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">note, it may be helpful to all readers of the
report if the issues</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">reports included a bibliography or sources
consulted section.</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">LG -- staff considered the SAC Advisory (SAC 025)
and I also consulted</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">extensively with Lyman Chapin.<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>We referred to the email exchanges
on</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">the SSAC list during the period of time in which
the SSAC folks were</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">discussing fast flux and<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>preparing SAC 025, the presentations
and</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">transcripts from the SSAC workshops in Los
Angeles</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">(<A
href="http://losangeles2007.icann.org/node/78">http://losangeles2007.icann.org/node/78</A>)</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">and Delhi (<A
href="http://delhi.icann.org/node/97">http://delhi.icann.org/node/97</A>),
and informally with a few</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">other sources.</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Pages 6, 14:<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>
</SPAN>One interpretation of the reference to "domains in ccTLDs</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">are targeted as well" is that there is no "lasting
value" to developing</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">gTLD policy regarding any issue that occurs in both
gTLDs and ccTLDs.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Is this interpretation intended?</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">LG<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>--
Chuck's comment was right.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>There
could be a benefit to</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">coordinating with the ccNSO.<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Not making a judgment on "no
lasting</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">value".</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Pages 6, 14:<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>
</SPAN>Similarly, one interpretation of the reference to "static</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">rules through a policy development process might be
quickly undermined</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">by intrepid cybercriminals" is that there can be
"no lasting value" to</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">developing gTLD policy regarding any issue that
results from or is</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">associated with cybercriminals because they move
more quickly than the</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">PDP and, as interpreted by one IPC member, "are
smarter than we are".<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Is this interpretation intended?</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">LG - That is why we mention the importance of
developing best practices,</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">which then can be enhanced and upgraded over time
to keep up better with</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">new techniques developed to undermine existing
deterrent techniques.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Perhaps a policy outcome might point to the need to
adopt rigorous best</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">practices and refresh on an ongoing basis.<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>But my understanding on fast</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">flux is that these best practices do not
necessarily exist today, so the</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">question might be how to encourage their
development in a structured and</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">focused way, as a necessary precursor to deciding
how to encourage or</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">require their widespread adoption.<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Might the GNSO Council take on a</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">convening role here?<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Or encourage or direct in some other
way?<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>In this</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">context, the inference of concern about "lasting
value" of imposing a</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">specific practice is intended.<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Page 8:<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>
</SPAN>For how long and on what scale has proxy redirection been used</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">to maintain high availability and spread the
network load?</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">LG - We need to study this more.<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>The key question I was raising is,</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">"are there valid uses that need to be considered,
that could be</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">undermined if certain deterrent steps were
imposed?"<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>It is not clear</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">from our cursory view how broadly this is used -
seems also unlikely</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">that there would be need for such constant and
frequent fluxing in this</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">context, but we couldn't determine for sure either
way. <SPAN class=Apple-converted-space></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Page 9:<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>
</SPAN>Did more than one person describe evasion of "black holing"</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">"anecdotally as a possible 'legitimate use'" of
fast flux?<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Any evidence</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">or research to suggest that it actually happens?
<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">LG -- This is anecdotal and may only be one entity,
another potential</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">subject of further study.</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Page 10:<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>
</SPAN>How likely is that fast flux hosting "could be significantly</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">curtailed by changes in the way in which DNS
registries and registrars</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">currently operate"?</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">LG - Would need to study further.</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Page 11:<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>
</SPAN>Is it technically possible now for registries and registrars</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">to act in two ways set forth in report?<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Practically possible?<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>If so,</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">do they?<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>
</SPAN>If not, have reasons for not doing so been provided and, if</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">so, what are they?</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">LG - Would need to study further.</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">(I have not included a scope clarification question
because I understand</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">that it has already bee posed.)<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Many thanks.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>
</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">Kristina<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space>
</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN: 0px"><BR></DIV>
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<DIV>IP JUSTICE</DIV>
<DIV>Robin Gross, Executive Director</DIV>
<DIV>1192 Haight Street, San Francisco, CA 94117 USA</DIV>
<DIV>p: +1-415-553-6261 f: +1-415-462-6451</DIV>
<DIV>w: <A href="http://www.ipjustice.org">http://www.ipjustice.org</A> e: <A
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