<html><body><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><div>Adrian,</div>
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<div>I agree that we need to be sure that Councilors have a place at the table. In fact, I think the Council as a whole was in agreement with that when we discussed it a few meetings back.</div>
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<div>The working sessions are not formal Council meetings and have always been open to the public. I realize you are not suggesting that they shouldn't be, but I think that as such we have to expect, and even provide for, a certain amount of public participation.</div>
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<div>Personally, I would not want to be responsible for fielding others' questions. It would be distracting to my own thought process (perhaps my age plays a role there ;), and I would worry about not getting it right and the Council missing any nuances that may be communicated when someone speaks for themselves.</div>
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<div>Perhaps having a bit more structure around these working sessions would be helpful. We could designate specific periods for questions and comments from the general public, or specify what period of time is allowed for strictly Council discussion and/or Council discussion with Staff opening it up to everyone after that.</div>
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<div>Tim </div>
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<DIV id=wmQuoteWrapper>-------- Original Message --------<BR>Subject: Re: [council] Meeting Protocol for Brussels and beyond...<BR>From: William Drake <<a href="mailto://william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch">william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch</a>><BR>Date: Wed, June 02, 2010 5:05 am<BR>To: Adrian Kinderis <<a href="mailto://adrian@ausregistry.com.au">adrian@ausregistry.com.au</a>><BR>Cc: "<a href="mailto://council@gnso.icann.org">council@gnso.icann.org</a> Council" <<a href="mailto://council@gnso.icann.org">council@gnso.icann.org</a>><BR><BR>Last time around the bend, then back to work...
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<DIV>On Jun 2, 2010, at 11:39 AM, Adrian Kinderis wrote:</DIV><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline>
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<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: red; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">AK>> How is asking a representative or the Chair to ask your question not participatory? You are still in the room. You still have a voice…</SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR></DIV>As a matter of principle I think people should be able to speak in their own voices, elaborate, and follow up rather than settling for someone else reading a short statement or whatever that won't their nuances etc. Pretty artificial, and would create quite the atmosphere in the room...<BR>
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<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">An inexact parallel but it speaks to worldviews—in related intergovernmental organization processes, most governments have made clear they would like global business, the Internet technical community, and civil society to sit quietly or not even be in the room on the grounds that they sufficiently represent all our viewpoints. For those of us who have battled to open these processes up to more diverse voices, it would be rather odd to then turn around and impose limitations in the bodies we tout as superior precisely because they allow open participation.<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: red; FONT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=EN-AU>AK>> That paragraph has to be somewhat of an overreaction and emotional hoo-haa! </SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Yup, dat's me</DIV>
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<DIV><BR></DIV>I'd be happy to jump on that one. In fact, I'd be happy if Council were to express such concerns with the RT, if they're shared. FWIW NCSG and ALAC recently sent a letter to the board expressing concerns about the non-transparent and sometimes problematic briefing docs provided to board by staff. <A href="http://www.atlarge.icann.org/correspondence/correspondence-4-20may10-en.htm" target=_blank>http://www.atlarge.icann.org/correspondence/correspondence-4-20may10-en.htm</A><BR>
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<DIV><BR></DIV>In principle, it wouldn't bother me if "Councilors speak first and non-Councilors keep it brief and to the point" rules applied, a slot could be saved at the end of each topic or call for a quick question or intervention. In practice, since we struggle to get through the agendas in two hours anyway, one imagines the time available would get squeezed to zilch quite often, in which case comments we didn't get to could be sent by email.<BR>
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<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">You really believe that the status (don't know about 'prestige') of Councilors is reduced if someone sitting off the table is called on to offer some thoughts after we've had our turns? <o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I agree it's awkward and hasn't worked sufficiently, but one could always redouble the effort and up the ante a bit.<SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV><BR></DIV>Well, I don't want to put anyone on the spot, but we do have people in leadership positions. Or we could designate a diplomatically deft ambassador; would you like to volunteer? ;-)<BR>
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<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Sorry, I do sometimes slip into UN-speak. Chuck busted me the other day for referring to the "ICANN Secretariat" in a draft doc, sigh... But rest assured, it's a free open air concert and Toots will serenade all comers without regard to stakeholder group or other identities...<o:p></o:p></DIV>
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<DIV><BR></DIV>As long as you can say I and I feel irie without laughing and have a better voice than Robert Plant, Toots might accommodate you... Wouldn't be hard...</DIV>
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<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma, sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN class=apple-converted-space><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma, sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma, sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">William Drake [<a href="mailto:william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch">mailto:william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch</a>]<SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR><B>Sent:</B><SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Wednesday, 2 June 2010 4:20 PM<BR><B>To:</B><SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Adrian Kinderis<BR><B>Cc:</B><SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A style="COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline" href="mailto:council@gnso.icann.org" target=_blank>council@gnso.icann.org</A><SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Council<BR><B>Subject:</B><SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Re: [council] Meeting Protocol for Brussels and beyond...</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-AU><o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN lang=EN-AU>Hi Adrian,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN lang=EN-AU>On Jun 2, 2010, at 2:24 AM, Adrian Kinderis wrote:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN lang=EN-AU>I would like to suggest that there be no questions from the floor during these sessions.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN lang=EN-AU>When we last had this conversation didn't we decide against </SPAN><SPAN class=apple-style-span><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial, sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt" lang=EN-AU>draconian measures that would preclude community participation (and were hence poorly received by some) and for some intermediate steps like only Councilors at the table, chair gives preference to Councilor comments and right sizes the time for others, etc? If people think this has not worked sufficiently, wouldn't it be possible to simply have an offline conversation with the most relevant parties saying please respect the following ground rules, and to reiterate these at the outset of meetings?</SPAN></SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-AU><o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN lang=EN-AU>On Jun 2, 2010, at 2:51 AM, Adrian Kinderis wrote:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN lang=EN-AU>I'll shout an extra round at the bar on Saturday night to make up for it :)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN lang=EN-AU>Hmm...didn't I hear something like this a few meetings ago, didn't materialize... :-)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN lang=EN-AU>BTW, on the matter of after hour amusement, perhaps I'll pass along something I pointed out to NCSG, might be of interest to some here:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN lang=EN-AU><BR>On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 1:33 PM, William Drake<BR><<A style="COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline" href="mailto:william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch" target=_blank>william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch</A>> wrote:<BR><BR><BR><o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN lang=EN-AU>Hi<o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN lang=EN-AU>Just an FYI for people who will be attending ICANN Brussels, as with Paris two summers ago, this meeting overlaps with the annual Fete de la Musique held across France, Belgium, Switzerland, etc. Just had a look at the program <A style="COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline" href="http://2010.fetedelamusique.be/recherches?tid=&tid_1=All&city=Bruxelles" target=_blank>http://2010.fetedelamusique.be/recherches?tid=&tid_1=All&city=Bruxelles</A> and inter alia Saturday night 19th Toots and the Maytals is playing in the park near the conference site.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
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<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN lang=EN-AU>Bill<o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN class=apple-style-span><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial, sans-serif; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">***********************************************************</SPAN></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial, sans-serif; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt"><BR><SPAN class=apple-style-span>William J. Drake</SPAN><BR><SPAN class=apple-style-span>Senior Associate</SPAN><BR><SPAN class=apple-style-span>Centre for International Governance</SPAN><BR><SPAN class=apple-style-span>Graduate Institute of International and</SPAN><BR><SPAN class=apple-style-span> Development Studies</SPAN><BR><SPAN class=apple-style-span>Geneva, Switzerland</SPAN><BR><SPAN class=apple-style-span><A style="COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline" href="mailto:william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch" target=_blank>william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch</A></SPAN><BR><SPAN class=apple-style-span><A style="COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline" href="http://www.graduateinstitute.ch/cig/drake.html" target=_blank>www.graduateinstitute.ch/cig/drake.html</A></SPAN><BR><SPAN class=apple-style-span>***********************************************************</SPAN><BR><BR><BR></SPAN><o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR>
<DIV><SPAN style="WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium Arial; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px" class=Apple-style-span>***********************************************************<BR>William J. Drake<BR>Senior Associate<BR>Centre for International Governance<BR>Graduate Institute of International and<BR> Development Studies<BR>Geneva, Switzerland<BR><A href="mailto:william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch" target=_blank>william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch</A><BR><a href="http://www.graduateinstitute.ch/cig/drake.html">www.graduateinstitute.ch/cig/drake.html</a><BR>***********************************************************<BR><BR></SPAN></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></span></body></html>