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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>At the risk of a bout of email ping pong here goes… see
below in </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:red'>red</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Adrian Kinderis</span></b><span
lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> William Drake
[mailto:william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 02, 2010 6:12 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Adrian Kinderis<br>
<b>Cc:</b> council@gnso.icann.org Council<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [council] Meeting Protocol for Brussels and beyond...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Hola Adrian<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>On Jun 2, 2010, at 8:49 AM, Adrian Kinderis wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Interesting... thanks Bill.</span><span lang=EN-AU><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-AU><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I think you all (y’all) are missing the point about being
elected representatives. </span><span lang=EN-AU><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>I do that a lot, sorry<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:red'>AK>> Stop it! ;)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The community input and participation is sufficiently covered
– and if not, I have suggested mechanisms where their input is heard (via
Councillors and or through the Chair). I do not consider this Draconian.
Draconian would be to exclude them altogether or ask them for their input prior
to the meeting. This is being organised and efficient. Don’t forget,
everyone gets a say.</span><span lang=EN-AU><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>I guess we just have different mental models of bottom up
democratic processes. Yours is strictly representative, mine's
participatory. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:red'>AK>> How is asking a representative or the Chair to ask your
question not participatory? You are still in the room. You still have a voice…<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>An inexact parallel but it speaks to worldviews—in
related intergovernmental organization processes, most governments have made
clear they would like global business, the Internet technical community, and
civil society to sit quietly or not even be in the room on the grounds that
they sufficiently represent all our viewpoints. For those of us who have
battled to open these processes up to more diverse voices, it would be rather
odd to then turn around and impose limitations in the bodies we tout as
superior precisely because they allow open participation.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:red'>AK>> That paragraph has to be somewhat of an overreaction and
emotional hoo-haa! Once again, how is my suggestion not open participation. I
am not sure that my suggestion hurts anyone’s civil liberties or restrict
basic human rights but I could be wrong… Why aren’t all these folks
jumping up and down about the Board having completely closed sessions with
ICANN staff? How is it any different?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-AU><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>In the same vain why aren’t our GNSO calls open for the
public?</span><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:red'>AK>> I note no response here...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-AU><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I also think it is important to raise the profile of our
Councilors (and the prestige for that matter). Folks should be made to feel
comfortable to use them to convey a point of view. Also, Councilors work very
hard, it could be considered a position of value to have been elected to sit at
the table and to have the ability to converse directly with Staff and the
Board. You never know, it may entice more folks to want to put themselves
forward as Councilors if they can see an immediate benefit.</span><span
lang=EN-AU><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>You really believe that the status (don't know about
'prestige') of Councilors is reduced if someone sitting off the table is called
on to offer some thoughts after we've had our turns? <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:red'>AK>> Yup. That is why I wrote it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-AU><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I think talking to repeat offenders “offline” is a
useless exercise and potentially creates a difficult and embarrassing
situation. Why should we have to play police officer? I’d like to avoid
that tension completely.</span><span lang=EN-AU><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>I agree it's awkward and hasn't worked sufficiently, but one
could always redouble the effort and up the ante a bit.<span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:red'>AK>> Please propose a method and an executioner. I have enough
people that think I’m a jerk and don’t need any help…<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-AU><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>With reference to my offer for drinks... we did it, but I had
too many members of the public claiming their right for a drink and ran out of
money ;)</span><span lang=EN-AU><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>NC missed the memo :-(<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-AU><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>By the way, I am against any invitation or information
with the words “inter alia” included. Makes me feel that only the
smart people are invited...</span><span lang=EN-AU><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>Sorry, I do sometimes slip into UN-speak. Chuck busted
me the other day for referring to the "ICANN Secretariat" in a draft
doc, sigh... But rest assured, it's a free open air concert and Toots
will serenade all comers without regard to stakeholder group or
other identities...<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:red'>AK>> So I’ll be able to participate in the concert then
with my rendition of a few Led Zepplin songs played on my harmonica? I trust
they don’t limit participation on the stage ;)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>Bill<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-AU><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><br>
<br>
</span><span lang=EN-AU><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-AU><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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border-width:initial;border-color:initial'>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>William Drake
[mailto:william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch]<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Wednesday, 2 June
2010 4:20 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Adrian Kinderis<br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a
href="mailto:council@gnso.icann.org">council@gnso.icann.org</a><span
class=apple-converted-space> </span>Council<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re: [council]
Meeting Protocol for Brussels and beyond...</span><span lang=EN-AU><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU>Hi Adrian,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU>On Jun 2, 2010, at 2:24 AM, Adrian Kinderis
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU>I would like to suggest that there be no
questions from the floor during these sessions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU>When we last had this conversation didn't
we decide against </span><span class=apple-style-span><span lang=EN-AU
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>draconian measures
that would preclude community participation (and were hence poorly received by
some) and for some intermediate steps like only Councilors at the table, chair
gives preference to Councilor comments and right sizes the time for others,
etc? If people think this has not worked sufficiently, wouldn't it be
possible to simply have an offline conversation with the most relevant parties
saying please respect the following ground rules, and to reiterate these at the
outset of meetings?</span></span><span lang=EN-AU><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU>On Jun 2, 2010, at 2:51 AM, Adrian Kinderis
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU>I'll shout an extra round at the bar on
Saturday night to make up for it :)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU>Hmm...didn't I hear something like this a
few meetings ago, didn't materialize... :-)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU>BTW, on the matter of after hour amusement,
perhaps I'll pass along something I pointed out to NCSG, might be of interest
to some here:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU><br>
On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 1:33 PM, William Drake<br>
<<a href="mailto:william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch">william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU>Hi<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU>Just an FYI for people who will be
attending ICANN Brussels, as with Paris two summers ago, this meeting overlaps
with the annual Fete de la Musique held across France, Belgium, Switzerland,
etc. Just had a look at the program <a
href="http://2010.fetedelamusique.be/recherches?tid=&tid_1=All&city=Bruxelles">http://2010.fetedelamusique.be/recherches?tid=&tid_1=All&city=Bruxelles</a> and
inter alia Saturday night 19th Toots and the Maytals is playing in the park
near the conference site.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-AU>Bill<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><span style='font-size:13.5pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>***********************************************************</span></span><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><br>
<span class=apple-style-span>William J. Drake</span><br>
<span class=apple-style-span>Senior Associate</span><br>
<span class=apple-style-span>Centre for International Governance</span><br>
<span class=apple-style-span>Graduate Institute of International and</span><br>
<span class=apple-style-span> Development Studies</span><br>
<span class=apple-style-span>Geneva, Switzerland</span><br>
<span class=apple-style-span><a href="mailto:william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch">william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch</a></span><br>
<span class=apple-style-span>www.graduateinstitute.ch/cig/drake.html</span><br>
<span class=apple-style-span>***********************************************************</span><br>
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