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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=815512607-21062010><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>This could lead to a situation where the GNSO has to deal
with applications without having an agreed process. This is not in our interest
and should be avoided. Let's talk about. Maybe there are constructive views from
other parties?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV><!-- Converted from text/rtf format --><BR>
<P><SPAN lang=de><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Regards</FONT></SPAN> <BR><SPAN
lang=de><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Wolf-Ulrich</FONT></SPAN> </P>
<DIV> </DIV><BR>
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<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>Von:</B> William Drake
[mailto:william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch] <BR><B>Gesendet:</B> Sonntag, 20.
Juni 2010 19:08<BR><B>An:</B> Knoben, Wolf-Ulrich<BR><B>Cc:</B> GNSO Council
List; Gomes, Chuck<BR><B>Betreff:</B> Re: [council] Motion to approve AOC
endorsement<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Hi Wolf-Ulrich,
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I was just about to come back to this, you beat me to the punch.
Having had the opportunity yesterday to hear a bit more on the thinking,
I guess I'm still of the view I shared on the last council call, since:</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>1. We had a drafting team comprising reps of all SGs that worked
collaboratively and agreed a text. This was on the table for some time
internally and then in the Council before concerns were expressed just prior
to consideration of the motion. IMO, the DT having done what was asked
of it, its text deserves a chance to be voted on.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>2. I still don't see why it is necessary to codify the sequence in
which Councilors may discuss possible additional diversity endorsements, or to
limit the conditions under which they may discuss the whole pool of
applicants. I trust Councilors to of course talk first about
candidates for whom SGs have expressed preferences, I can't imagine the
conversation in which they'd refuse to.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>3. The drafting team was mandated to propose a process that could
be used for RT endorsements going forward. If subsequent experience
suggests that it'd make sense to revisit and tweak the process, we would do
that. I don't see why we should assume at the front end
that there will be problems and hence limit our agreement to just the
next two RTs.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>4. As discussed in today's meeting, it has become clear in recent
days that there a different views in play about the nature and proper role of
the Council. To the extent that the amendment is based one particular
view, it seems premature to set that philosophical baseline in this instance.
We need to have a broader and more probing discussion of this somewhere
down the line and see if we can come to some shared understanding.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>So let's treat it as unfriendly and whatever Councilors decide in
their SG representative capacities, fine.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Cheers,</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Bill</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Jun 20, 2010, at 6:07 PM, <<A
href="mailto:KnobenW@telekom.de">KnobenW@telekom.de</A>> <<A
href="mailto:KnobenW@telekom.de">KnobenW@telekom.de</A>> wrote:</DIV><BR
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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=999170516-20062010>Bill,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=999170516-20062010></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=999170516-20062010>following the NCPH
discussion on the topic: could you now accept the amendment as
friendly?</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV><!-- Converted from text/rtf format --><BR>
<P><SPAN lang=de><FONT face="Courier New">Regards</FONT></SPAN> <BR><SPAN
lang=de><FONT face="Courier New">Wolf-Ulrich</FONT></SPAN> </P>
<DIV> </DIV><BR>
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<FONT face=Tahoma><B>Von:</B> Mary Wong [mailto:MWong@piercelaw.edu]
<BR><B>Gesendet:</B> Donnerstag, 17. Juni 2010 06:39<BR><B>An:</B> <A
href="mailto:william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch">william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch</A>;
Knoben, Wolf-Ulrich<BR><B>Cc:</B> <A
href="mailto:rafik.dammak@GMAIL.COM">rafik.dammak@GMAIL.COM</A>; <A
href="mailto:council@gnso.icann.org">council@gnso.icann.org</A>; <A
href="mailto:cgomes@verisign.com">cgomes@verisign.com</A><BR><B>Betreff:</B>
Re: AW: [council] Motion to approve AOC endorsement<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>FWIW I agree with Bill and Caroline that the motion, as it stands (or
is that stood?) does NOT prevent the Council from
proposing/supporting/endorsing a different process for future RTs. What it
seems to me to do is to endorse a baseline/default starting
point that has the benefit of being uniform, clear and resulting from
the thoughtful efforts of the DT (on which all SGs were
represented).</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I find it somewhat ironic - and perhaps a testimony to those who have
mentioned elsewhere that the question of what we as Councillors are meant
to do or be - that the question of whether (and to what extent) the
Council is acting as a "managerial" versus a legislative top-down body in
the new GNSO environment seems to be arising in various contexts recently.
Regardless, I'm having a bit of a hard time believing that
Councillors elected by their SGs would not do their best to fully
represent that SG's interests, while respecting the role of the Council
and the need for consensus among the whole ICANN community (even if this
means, as is often the case, questioning or proposing amendments to
motions, as happened here. I fully believe that the differences of opinion
we are seeing on this issue is the result of various Councillors balancing
the demands and needs of their particular SGs/constituencies with the
overall effect to the community and the work of the Cou</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I understand that this may be more difficult - depending on the
issue, for instance - for certain SGs at certain points in time. However,
and in this particular context, I'm inclined to give greater weight to the
deliberations and recommendations of the DT, especially as it was a
broadly representative team and it remains open to us at a future
date to require and/or justify a different process.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Cheers</DIV>
<DIV>Mary</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#800080>Mary W S Wong</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV>Professor of Law & Chair, Graduate IP Programs</DIV>
<DIV>Franklin Pierce Law Center</DIV>
<DIV>Two White Street</DIV>
<DIV>Concord, NH 03301</DIV>
<DIV>USA</DIV>
<DIV>Email: <A
href="mailto:mwong@piercelaw.edu">mwong@piercelaw.edu</A></DIV>
<DIV>Phone: 1-603-513-5143</DIV>
<DIV>Webpage: <A
href="http://www.piercelaw.edu/marywong/index.php">http://www.piercelaw.edu/marywong/index.php</A></DIV>
<DIV>Selected writings available on the Social Science Research
Network (SSRN) at: <A
href="http://ssrn.com/author=437584">http://ssrn.com/author=437584</A></DIV><BR><BR>>>>
</DIV>
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<TD><STRONG>From: </STRONG></TD>
<TD>William Drake <<A
href="mailto:william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch">william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch</A>></TD></TR>
<TR vAlign=top>
<TD><STRONG>To:</STRONG></TD>
<TD><<A
href="mailto:KnobenW@telekom.de">KnobenW@telekom.de</A>></TD></TR>
<TR vAlign=top>
<TD><STRONG>CC:</STRONG></TD>
<TD><<A
href="mailto:cgomes@verisign.com">cgomes@verisign.com</A>>,
<<A
href="mailto:rafik.dammak@GMAIL.COM">rafik.dammak@GMAIL.COM</A>>,
<<A
href="mailto:council@gnso.icann.org">council@gnso.icann.org</A>></TD></TR>
<TR vAlign=top>
<TD><STRONG>Date: </STRONG></TD>
<TD>6/16/2010 6:43 PM</TD></TR>
<TR vAlign=top>
<TD><STRONG>Subject: </STRONG></TD>
<TD>Re: AW: [council] Motion to approve AOC
endorsement</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<DIV>Hi Wolf-Ulrich,</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Jun 16, 2010, at 11:48 PM, <<A
href="mailto:KnobenW@telekom.de">KnobenW@telekom.de</A>>
wrote:</DIV><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: medium Arial; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; WIDOWS: 2; ORPHANS: 2; webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">
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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=993223521-16062010><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>As I tried to explain,
the amended motion does <U>not</U> preclude using
the same process after the next two RTs. But it doesn't cement it
like some GNSO folks were feeling
before</FONT></SPAN></DIV></DIV></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>A parallel small point, the unamended motion does
<U>not</U> preclude the Council revisiting the process
after the next two RTs if issues are identified that merit tweak.
No cement or other building materials bind us to follow this
or any other process we don't prefer.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
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<DIV>
<DIV>
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<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif">This
I guess is consistent with Kristina's earlier comments
that Council " has been greatly restricted in the
restructuring and the initially proposed mechanism goes beyond
that role," and that "having a slightly more complicated
process at the SG level is far preferable to having the
Council take on an SG role and make nominations independent of
the community." But per previous I don't quite get the
notion that elected representatives of SGs working together in
Council are somehow separate from and would be acting
above/independent of SGs in voting on endorsements. Does
that only hold here, or is it true of any and all Council
decisions? If we adopt this language, are we
collectively establishing the premise that Council is not a
representative body that can act on behalf of its
constituents? I'd think it important to be clear what
we're saying here. I understand CSG wants to talk about
this Saturday in the non-contracted house meeting, which will
presumably help, but it seems like a conversation for the
wider Council and community too if for no other reason than
the Council (?) will have to vote on it.<BR><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial, sans-serif"> </SPAN><O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial, sans-serif">[WUK:
] </SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: blue"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial, sans-serif">It
is more about the question of the council's competences.
According to the bylaws "</SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: blue">The
GNSO Council is responsible for<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><U>managing the
policy development process</U><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>of the GNSO". Since
the activities around the AoC could be seen as lying outside
these competences it is advisable to ascertain the GNSO as a
whole endorses the process. In other words: where the council
competences are not in question we won't have such a
discussion.</SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Determining whether the GNSO as a whole supports or
opposes a particular decision on our plate would be an interesting
new requirement for Council action. We could, for example,
henceforth require a consultation and consensus formation on <A
href="http://gnso.icann.org/mailing-lists/archives/ga-200709">http://gnso.icann.org/mailing-lists/archives/ga-200709</A>
before taking any action. I'm sure there are some folks there
who'd like to weigh in. But in lieu of such a requirement,
Council representatives act in accordance with the norms and customs
of their respective communities and of the democratically elected
Council. An interesting question then is whether other SGs and
the Council as a whole should set aside that approach, redefine its
role, and base its actions on any one SG's internal norms and
dynamics. I'm open to persuasion, but a priori this seems like
an unusual foundation for collective action.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Cheers,</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Bill<BR><BR></DIV></DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR>
<DIV><BR><A
href="http://www.piercelaw.edu/"><SPAN><IMAGE.jpg></SPAN>
</A></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR>
<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
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<DIV
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; webkit-nbsp-mode: space; webkit-line-break: after-white-space">***********************************************************<BR>William
J. Drake<BR>Senior Associate<BR>Centre for
International Governance<BR>Graduate Institute of International
and<BR> Development Studies<BR>Geneva, Switzerland<BR><A
href="mailto:william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch">william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch</A><BR>www.graduateinstitute.ch/cig/drake.html</DIV>
<DIV
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; webkit-nbsp-mode: space; webkit-line-break: after-white-space"><A
href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/williamjdrake">www.linkedin.com/in/williamjdrake</A><BR>***********************************************************<BR><BR></DIV></SPAN></SPAN></DIV><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>