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It is indeed frustrating that whenever the council fails to take a
vote positions are suddenly questioned when it comes to publicly
stating concerns a large part of the council holds. The only
solution seems to be that prior to ending a discussion on any topic
that calls for a letter to be sent or statement to be made at least
a measurement of the "temperature of the room" be conducted to see
if there is substantial opposition during the meeting, instead of
after the letter is drafted.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
Volker Greimann<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAC7qwdBsvviTNK+-u_YbURE5XpRb4PxucZJP4RuQFHFao2UFkQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>Thanks, John, for your comments. I'm not sure how
fruitful it is to continue pressing the point, but it seems
clear to me that a majority of the stakeholder groups on the
Council are very concerned with the issues NCSG has raised
in its request and that Jeff has articulated in his letter.
<br>
<br>
I have found it frustrating that efforts to secure agreement
on any core principles of concern appear to have foundered,
so I'm not sure how constructive it is to keep saying that
the Council as a whole doesn't have a view.<br>
<br>
I haven't heard much in the way of substantive disagreement,
but perhaps my impression of our most recent call where
others expressed concern about process or their ability to
be heard is colouring my memory.<br>
<br>
</div>
In any case, what is the status of a letter from the Council
to the Board, articulating concerns? Can a formal decision
taken to either send or not send Jeff's letter?<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>I think it is time we rose above individual stakeholder
group concerns and considered the implications for the Council
as a whole. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
All the best, Maria<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 26 June 2013 17:42, <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:john@crediblecontext.com" target="_blank">john@crediblecontext.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>Jonathan,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I will repeat what I said initially.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Jeff's proposed letter was accurate in exposing a set
of issues that was of intense interest to the Council. It
was incorrect is suggesting the view was unanimous and
that there was some decision taken on the part of the
Council about it.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Raise the matter -- I was the one who brought of the
notion of exectivication of decision making at ICANN --
sure, but be clear it is our concern, not our judgement.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Berard</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid
#c2c2c2;padding-left:3px;margin-left:4px">---------
Original Message ---------
<div>
<div class="im">Subject: RE: [council] FYI: NCSG Letter
to the Board re. Reconsideration Request 13-3<br>
</div>
<div>
<div class="h5">From: "Jonathan Robinson" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jonathan.robinson@ipracon.com"
target="_blank">jonathan.robinson@ipracon.com</a>><br>
Date: 6/26/13 7:30 am<br>
To: "'WUKnoben'" <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:wolf-ulrich.knoben@t-online.de"
target="_blank">wolf-ulrich.knoben@t-online.de</a>>,
"'Maria Farrell'" <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:maria.farrell@gmail.com"
target="_blank">maria.farrell@gmail.com</a>>, <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:council@gnso.icann.org"
target="_blank">council@gnso.icann.org</a>, <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:john@crediblecontext.com"
target="_blank">john@crediblecontext.com</a><br>
<br>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">Personally,
I have no difficulty with the principle of the
point made by John and supported by
Wolf-Ulrich.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">That
said, I believe Jeff has articulated a concern
regarding this item which was then discussed
and there was clearly some (un-quantified)
support on the Council for this position.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">Therefore,
what would be helpful to me, and likely to the
Council as a whole, is to hear any arguments
as to why the concerns articulated are not
necessarily concerns.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">I
hope I am not doing anyone a disservice here
but I thought I heard questions seeking
clarification or detail and some proposed
variations to the wording of our communication
with BGC, but not necessarily any substantive
arguments as to why the concerns raised
(originally by Jeff) should not be concerns.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">Thanks,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1f497d">Jonathan</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif';color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Tahoma','sans-serif'"
lang="EN-US">From:</span></strong><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Tahoma','sans-serif'" lang="EN-US">
WUKnoben [mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:wolf-ulrich.knoben@t-online.de" target="_blank">wolf-ulrich.knoben@t-online.de</a>]
<br>
<strong>Sent:</strong> 26 June 2013 12:58<br>
<strong>To:</strong> Maria Farrell; <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:council@gnso.icann.org"
target="_blank">council@gnso.icann.org</a>;
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:john@crediblecontext.com"
target="_blank">john@crediblecontext.com</a><br>
<strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [council]
FYI: NCSG Letter to the Board re.
Reconsideration Request 13-3</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif'">With
respect to the fairness to those who did
not raise similar concerns or couldn’t
support the concerns raised at the last
council meeting I join John’s comment.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif'"><br>
Best regards<br>
<br>
Wolf-Ulrich</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:whitesmoke"><strong><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</span></strong><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="john@crediblecontext.com"
href="mailto:john@crediblecontext.com" target="_blank">john@crediblecontext.com</a>
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:whitesmoke"><strong><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Tahoma','sans-serif'">Sent:</span></strong><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> Wednesday,
June 26, 2013 12:41 AM</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:whitesmoke"><strong><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Tahoma','sans-serif'">To:</span></strong><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="maria.farrell@gmail.com"
href="mailto:maria.farrell@gmail.com" target="_blank">Maria Farrell</a>
; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="council@gnso.icann.org"
href="mailto:council@gnso.icann.org"
target="_blank">council@gnso.icann.org</a>
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:whitesmoke"><strong><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Tahoma','sans-serif'">Subject:</span></strong><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> RE:
[council] FYI: NCSG Letter to the
Board re. Reconsideration Request
13-3</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif'">Maria,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif'">I
am a fan of short-hand and jargon (it
make life quicker and excludes the
uninitiated) but your letter should
have more correctly said "<em><strong><span
style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif'">Some members of</span></strong></em>
the GNSO Council expressed
concern..." It is clear there is no
position taken and no unanimity.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif'">A
fine but important point.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif'">Cheers,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif'">Berard</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </span></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#c2c2c2 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
2.0pt;margin-left:3.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif'">---------
Original Message --------- </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif'">Subject:
[council] FYI: NCSG Letter to the
Board re. Reconsideration Request
13-3<br>
From: "Maria Farrell" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:maria.farrell@gmail.com"
target="_blank">maria.farrell@gmail.com</a>><br>
Date: 6/25/13 1:48 pm<br>
To: "<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:council@gnso.icann.org"
target="_blank">council@gnso.icann.org</a>"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:council@gnso.icann.org"
target="_blank">council@gnso.icann.org</a>></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif'">Dear Council colleagues,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif'">Below
for your information is a copy
of a letter sent on behalf of
the NCSG to the Board of
Directors, which was received
by the Board (via Bruce
Tonkin's kind intercession) on
19 June. </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif'">Bruce
says the Board would be
interested to meet and discuss
the broad concerns about the
multistakeholder model raised
in the reconsideration
request, and also confirms
that the request itself will
be discussed at the BGC
meeting of 25 June. </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif'">If
and when we have any
scheduling information about a
meeting with the Board, we
will share it so that others
may be aware. </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif'">All the best,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif'">Maria</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif'"><br>
Dear ICANN Board of Directors:</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif'">I
am writing to you on behalf of
the Non-Commercial Stakeholder
Group (NCSG) and other
concerned members of the ICANN
community regarding the
harmful implications to the
community-led
multi-stakeholder policy
development model if the ICANN
Board decides to adopt the
rationale provided in the
recommendation of the Board
Governance Committee (BGC) in
response to the NCSG's Request
for Reconsideration (13-3).
The rationale provided in the
BGC's recommendation, which
appears to be drafted by
over-reaching lawyers,
attempts to set a precedent
that ICANN staff can over-rule
the GNSO Council on policy
decisions at its own
discretion. This decision has
alarmed community members
beyond the NCSG and beyond
those who were originally
concerned with the underlying
issue that NCSG was initially
probing of staff's adoption of
the "TM+50" policy for the
Trademark Clearinghouse. </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif'">The
GNSO Council expressed concern
about the BGC decision
rationale at length during
council's 13 June meeting; and
I encourage all Board Members
to listen to <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://t.co/ss2MwpdWEa"
target="_blank">audio
recording</a> of the GNSO
Council discussion or read the
attached transcript to get a
better understanding the
concerns of members of several
different GNSO stakeholder
groups. </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif'">The
rationale provided in the BGC
decision, if adopted by the
entire board, would cement the
change in ICANN's policy
development model away from
the bottom-up community-led
governance model to a top-down
staff-driven model with no
checks on abuses or poor staff
decisions. If the rationale
provided in this BGC decision
is adopted by the Board, which
goes well beyond the narrow
issue presented to it, ICANN
threatens to undermine its own
legitimacy as a global
governance institution, and it
loses the ability to label
itself as a community-led
bottom-up model for Internet
governance.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif'">We
understand the BGC's
recommendation is on the
agenda to be adopted on 25
June 2013 by the Board's New
gTLD Program Committee
(NGPC). Given the Board's
record of adopting all 15 BGC
decisions that have come
before it in the last ten
years, there is concern that
this BGC recommendation will
be similarly adopted by the
Board with little
understanding or discussion of
the harm to ICANN's legitimacy
and the multi-stakeholder
model that this precedent
threatens. The handling of
this reconsideration request
has also raised concerns about
ICANN's "accountability"
mechanism, which appears to
allow the same legal team that
created and adopted a policy
to later evaluate the
legitimacy of that policy's
adoption.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><em><strong><span
style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif'">We therefore respectfully
request that the Board
meet with concerned
members of the community
including NCSG to permit a
more complete discussion
and understanding of the
concerns raised by the
rationale provided in the
BGC decision and to allow
for appropriate
adjustments to the
decision before it is
adopted by the Board.</span></strong></em><span
style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif'"> We would gladly meet with
the Members of the ICANN Board
during the Durban Meeting or
before, at the Board's
convenience, to discuss this
decision and welcome all
members of the community to
join in the discussion.
Please let us know if the
Board is available to meet
with NCSG and others in the
community on this crucial
issue at your earliest
convenience. Thank you for
your consideration. We look
forward to fruitful
discussions going into Durban
and stand ready to provide
whatever assistance is needed.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif'">Truly,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif'">Robin
Gross</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:'Calibri','sans-serif'">NCSG
Chair</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
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