<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"><base href="x-msg://696/"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">hi all,<div><br></div><div>this is helpful discussion indeed. i'm getting ready to forward this thread to several people and think it would be helpful to have a few things included. can somebody chime in with:</div><div><br></div><div>- a link to the wiki page that Amr mentioned</div><div><br></div><div>- a pointer to any kind of a charter that the group has started to work on</div><div><br></div><div>- suggestions as to the best way for interested SG/C's to indicate their interest in participating</div><div><br></div><div>i think part of what's going on is that a) things are moving fast and b) the rules of the road aren't clear yet. i don't feel that i'm qualified to participate in the "content" part of the "get ready for Brazil" effort, but i would be happy to assist with slapping together a quick charter if Rafik, Olivier and others would find that helpful. here's a link to a series of chartering questions i've cobbled together over the years that might be useful in crafting a charter, whether i'm involved in that or not (many of you have seen these before).</div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><a href="http://www.haven2.com/index.php/tools/mikeys-pretty-good-project-definition-worksheet">http://www.haven2.com/index.php/tools/mikeys-pretty-good-project-definition-worksheet</a></div><div><br></div><div>thanks all, </div><div><br></div><div>mikey</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div><div>On Nov 28, 2013, at 4:33 AM, "Jonathan Robinson" <<a href="mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info">jrobinson@afilias.info</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-GB" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Thanks Amr & Avri,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">I understood Fadi’s invitation similarly to you Avri and, personally, can see the NCSG / ALAC initiative for what it seems to be i.e. a good faith attempt to jump on the train before it leaves the station.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Also, I certainly do not believe any SG/C needs the Council’s blessing or permission to participate. Where the Council MAY be able to help is assisting with the communication / co-ordination to ensure all GNSO groups are fully aware of what is going on and any recent background. This thread seems to have been helpful in that context.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span></div><div><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm; "><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>avri [mailto:avri@<a href="http://acm.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">acm.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>28 November 2013 00:52<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><<a href="mailto:council@gnso.icann.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">council@gnso.icann.org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [council] CWG on Internet Govenrance Issues<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">Hi <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">I had understood it that Fadi invited the whole community to do something. So, it wasn't that he specifically invited the non commercials of NCSG and users of ALAC, but rather that like everyone else we heard the invitation at the Wednesday early morning meeting, and decided to act on it.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">In doing so, the idea was, we saw the train leaving and we figured we would jump on before it left without us. We also extended an invitation for all other SG/C to join us when we announced in the forum that we had taken up the offer and gotten the ball rolling.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">Rafik, the NCSG chair and Olivier the ALAC chair are currently facilitating this effort. I suggest other SG/C talk to them about joining in the effort if interested. I also understand that some may decide to stand aside from this CWG on bottom-up principle. I can respect that. But at this point we are so far beyond the bottom-up principle on so many aspects of ICANN actions, I find that it is a principle mostly honored in the breech.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">I appreciate that Sally accepted that this effort was the start of response to their request for community participation. I also see no reason why on a cross community wg, NCSG should need the council's permission to participate.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 9pt; ">avri<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 9pt; "> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 9pt; ">Sent from a T-Mobile 4G LTE Device<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><br><br><br>-------- Original message --------<br>From: Amr Elsadr <<a href="mailto:aelsadr@egyptig.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">aelsadr@egyptig.org</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>Date: 11/27/2013 19:15 (GMT-05:00)<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>To: John Berard <<a href="mailto:john@crediblecontext.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">john@crediblecontext.com</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>Cc: "<<a href="mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">jrobinson@afilias.info</a>>" <<a href="mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">jrobinson@afilias.info</a>>,"<<a href="mailto:council@gnso.icann.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">council@gnso.icann.org</a>>" <<a href="mailto:council@gnso.icann.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">council@gnso.icann.org</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>Subject: Re: [council] CWG on Internet Govenrance Issues<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">Jonathan and John,<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">The NCSG/ALAC meeting where this idea was proposed started immediately following the Council wrap-up session. It was not, to my knowledge, an initiative born from any invitation of any kind nor imposed by anyone from the “top” or elsewhere. It was more of a discussion amongst civil society actors within the ICANN community to coordinate efforts to ensure NCSG/ALAC representation in whatever process leads up to the Brazil summit (or whatever they’ve decided to call it) in April 2014. In fact, one of the outputs of the meeting was a suggestion to draft a joint NCSG/ALAC letter addressed to Fadi expressing a desire to engage in the process.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">During the meeting, it was also decided that inviting the broader ICANN community to the discussion using a Wiki as a platform for cross community input on the topic was a good idea. The term “Cross-Community Working Group” was used in an email message on an NCSG list, but I am not aware of any actual WG or drafting team in the pipeline. Just a Wiki-based cross community discussion platform. If this changes, if I learn something I do not know now, or when the Wiki goes online, I’ll be sure to send a note to all of you on the Council list to make sure you’re all informed.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">Sound good?<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">Amr<o:p></o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">On Nov 27, 2013, at 7:22 PM, John Berard <<a href="mailto:john@crediblecontext.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">john@crediblecontext.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><br><br><o:p></o:p></div><div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: TrebuchetMS, serif; ">Jonathan,<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: TrebuchetMS, serif; "> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: TrebuchetMS, serif; ">The work of the drafting team is aimed at creating an aligned PDP and reflects a bottom-up sensibility<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: TrebuchetMS, serif; "> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: TrebuchetMS, serif; ">This CWG on Internet Governance is more politics than policy and has been imposed from the top,<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: TrebuchetMS, serif; "> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: TrebuchetMS, serif; ">What I would like to know is who issued the invitation to the ALAC and NCSG, what was the rationale and why the NCSG accepted without consultation with the broader GNSO of which they are a part?<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: TrebuchetMS, serif; "> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: TrebuchetMS, serif; ">Were other ACs and SOs invited? Did they decline?<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: TrebuchetMS, serif; "> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: TrebuchetMS, serif; ">I am aware that I am veering toward paranoia, but it's not inappropriate if they are really out to get you.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: TrebuchetMS, serif; "> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: TrebuchetMS, serif; ">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: TrebuchetMS, serif; "> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: TrebuchetMS, serif; ">Berard<br><br>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: TrebuchetMS, serif; "><br>On Nov 27, 2013, at 1:04 PM, "Jonathan Robinson" <<a href="mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; "><span style="color: purple; ">jrobinson@afilias.info</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">All,<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "> <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">At the Council meeting wrap-up in Buenos Aires, we talked about GNSO participation in the CWG on internet governance and the Council and/or GNSO Council chair’s otential role.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "> <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">At the time, I don’t believe we were aware of the proposed role of ALAC / NCSG as co-ordinators. <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "> <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">I think (from a Council perspective) we should probably now await the call for further participation and respond to that, but I am open to any other suggestions.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "> <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">We could offer the CWG principles as they currently stand?<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "> <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "> <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br><div apple-content-edited="true">
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