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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">If all of you will accept some thoughts on this from a Temporary Alternate, here are some suggestions I would like to make.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I don’t think it is wise for us to think of this as an NCSG/ALAC initiative unless they suggest otherwise. I believe it is a Fadi initiative that the NCSG
and ALAC picked up on and many of the rest of us didn’t; I am not sure why that is the case but it would be interesting to find out. I would be curious to know what session it was when Fadi suggested this. At ICANN in-person meetings there are always multiple
conflicts so we don’t all attend the same sessions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Going forward, I think it would be best if we joined in and try to make it a productive effort rather than spending time worrying about how it came about.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">In my opinion, all of this illustrates the problem of staff initiating efforts in a public setting without involving existing mechanisms and processes. It
results in confusion and feelings of disenfranchisement by some members of the community. This doesn’t mean that initiating things like this needs to take a lot of time, but I believe that before doing so in a public session, it would help a lot if staff
would talk to the leaders of the various SOs and ACs so they are not blindsided and even better so that a simple plan can be devised for a quick rollout, bottom-up instead of top-down. Moreover, bottom-up doesn’t have to mean slow if existing leadership structures
are used.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I think Avri describe this very well in saying “. .
</span>at this point we are so far beyond the bottom-up principle on so many aspects of ICANN actions, I find that it is a principle mostly honored in the breech.<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Chuck<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> owner-council@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jonathan Robinson<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 28, 2013 5:34 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'avri'; council@gnso.icann.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [council] CWG on Internet Govenrance Issues<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thanks Amr & Avri,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I understood Fadi’s invitation similarly to you Avri and, personally, can see the NCSG / ALAC initiative for what it seems to be i.e. a good faith
attempt to jump on the train before it leaves the station.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Also, I certainly do not believe any SG/C needs the Council’s blessing or permission to participate. Where the Council MAY be able to help is
assisting with the communication / co-ordination to ensure all GNSO groups are fully aware of what is going on and any recent background. This thread seems to have been helpful in that context.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> avri
<a href="mailto:[mailto:avri@acm.org]">[mailto:avri@acm.org]</a> <br>
<b>Sent:</b> 28 November 2013 00:52<br>
<b>To:</b> <<a href="mailto:council@gnso.icann.org">council@gnso.icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [council] CWG on Internet Govenrance Issues<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Hi <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">I had understood it that Fadi invited the whole community to do something. So, it wasn't that he specifically invited the non commercials of NCSG and users of ALAC, but rather that like everyone else we heard the invitation
at the Wednesday early morning meeting, and decided to act on it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">In doing so, the idea was, we saw the train leaving and we figured we would jump on before it left without us. We also extended an invitation for all other SG/C to join us when we announced in the forum that we had taken
up the offer and gotten the ball rolling.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Rafik, the NCSG chair and Olivier the ALAC chair are currently facilitating this effort. I suggest other SG/C talk to them about joining in the effort if interested. I also understand that some may decide to stand aside
from this CWG on bottom-up principle. I can respect that. But at this point we are so far beyond the bottom-up principle on so many aspects of ICANN actions, I find that it is a principle mostly honored in the breech.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">I appreciate that Sally accepted that this effort was the start of response to their request for community participation. I also see no reason why on a cross community wg, NCSG should need the council's permission to
participate.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:9.0pt">avri<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:9.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:9.0pt">Sent from a T-Mobile 4G LTE Device<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-GB"><br>
<br>
<br>
-------- Original message --------<br>
From: Amr Elsadr <<a href="mailto:aelsadr@egyptig.org">aelsadr@egyptig.org</a>> <br>
Date: 11/27/2013 19:15 (GMT-05:00) <br>
To: John Berard <<a href="mailto:john@crediblecontext.com">john@crediblecontext.com</a>>
<br>
Cc: "<<a href="mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info">jrobinson@afilias.info</a>>" <<a href="mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info">jrobinson@afilias.info</a>>,"<<a href="mailto:council@gnso.icann.org">council@gnso.icann.org</a>>" <<a href="mailto:council@gnso.icann.org">council@gnso.icann.org</a>>
<br>
Subject: Re: [council] CWG on Internet Govenrance Issues <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Jonathan and John,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">The NCSG/ALAC meeting where this idea was proposed started immediately following the Council wrap-up session. It was not, to my knowledge, an initiative born from any invitation of any kind nor imposed by anyone from
the “top” or elsewhere. It was more of a discussion amongst civil society actors within the ICANN community to coordinate efforts to ensure NCSG/ALAC representation in whatever process leads up to the Brazil summit (or whatever they’ve decided to call it)
in April 2014. In fact, one of the outputs of the meeting was a suggestion to draft a joint NCSG/ALAC letter addressed to Fadi expressing a desire to engage in the process.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">During the meeting, it was also decided that inviting the broader ICANN community to the discussion using a Wiki as a platform for cross community input on the topic was a good idea. The term “Cross-Community Working
Group” was used in an email message on an NCSG list, but I am not aware of any actual WG or drafting team in the pipeline. Just a Wiki-based cross community discussion platform. If this changes, if I learn something I do not know now, or when the Wiki goes
online, I’ll be sure to send a note to all of you on the Council list to make sure you’re all informed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Sound good?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Amr<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">On Nov 27, 2013, at 7:22 PM, John Berard <<a href="mailto:john@crediblecontext.com">john@crediblecontext.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:TrebuchetMS">Jonathan,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:TrebuchetMS"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:TrebuchetMS">The work of the drafting team is aimed at creating an aligned PDP and reflects a bottom-up sensibility<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:TrebuchetMS"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:TrebuchetMS">This CWG on Internet Governance is more politics than policy and has been imposed from the top,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:TrebuchetMS"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:TrebuchetMS">What I would like to know is who issued the invitation to the ALAC and NCSG, what was the rationale and why the NCSG accepted without consultation with the broader GNSO
of which they are a part?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:TrebuchetMS"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:TrebuchetMS">Were other ACs and SOs invited? Did they decline?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:TrebuchetMS"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:TrebuchetMS">I am aware that I am veering toward paranoia, but it's not inappropriate if they are really out to get you.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:TrebuchetMS"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:TrebuchetMS">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:TrebuchetMS"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:TrebuchetMS">Berard<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:TrebuchetMS"><br>
On Nov 27, 2013, at 1:04 PM, "Jonathan Robinson" <<a href="mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info"><span style="color:purple">jrobinson@afilias.info</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">All,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">At the Council meeting wrap-up in Buenos Aires, we talked about GNSO participation in the CWG on internet governance and the Council and/or GNSO Council chair’s
otential role.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">At the time, I don’t believe we were aware of the proposed role of ALAC / NCSG as co-ordinators. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">I think (from a Council perspective) we should probably now await the call for further participation and respond to that, but I am open to any other suggestions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">We could offer the CWG principles as they currently stand?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</blockquote>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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